8 ms·

I went to ngconf this year and two of the talks that stood out to me were given by women. One was the angular materials talk / demo and it was amazing. The pre

I went to ngconf this year and two of the talks that stood out to me were given by women. One was the angular materials talk / demo and it was amazing. The presenter was exuding tech prowess, I was blown away by how easy she made it look to make a dog adoption website. One of the best talks. The other was by the CEO of girl scouts giving a patronizing 5 minute talk about how we need all help women in tech succeed and change ourselves so the world can change for the better. One of the worst talks. I had those in mind when I read the article and for that reason I think I can see where she's coming from. When a woman just gives a tech talk, it's just a tech talk incidentally given by a woman. Isn't that the goal? More talks like the first one I described?

jonnybgood 10y ago
Well, I don't think it's the goal of a CEO of a social organization to give a talk on tech issues. Their focus is on social issues, so I don't see this as a good example.
- andkon 10y ago
  To say nothing of the fact that it doesn't seem coherent to distinguish between "tech issues" and "social issues," this literally only makes sense if you think that the lack of diverse folks in tech isn't a social issue. That's deeply, deeply wrong. Of course it is a social issue.
  - jonnybgood 10y ago
    I didn't say anything contrary to that.
- drcoopster 10y ago
  Perhaps then she shouldn't have been giving a talk at a tech conference.
  - jonnybgood 10y ago
    That falls under the purview of the organizers.
    - ajkjk 10y ago
      But it's well within the public's right to criticize them for doing a bad job at.. 'purviewing'.
      - popmystack 10y ago
        No one is saying it's not. Stick with the subject instead of addressing nothing no one has stated.
      - jonnybgood 10y ago
        I said nothing contrary to that. The choice of who speaks at a tech conference is at the discretion of the organizers. So, criticize the organizers, not the speaker.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  What would you expect a male CEO of a social organization to talk about at a tech conference? I suspect that while social issues might come up, the expected talk would be the male CEO focusing the talk on running his organization and the tech that is involved. Perhaps the importance of competent tech or something or another. The actual social issues would merely be highlights, and he'd probably skip talking about the male experience in tech. I'd understand if she were talking about tools they were using to get young women and girls interested in the tech field, as I'd expect this sort of thing with someone involved with Boy Scouts - but this doesn't seem to be the case.
  - busterarm 10y ago
    I wouldn't expect the male CEO of a social organization to be giving a talk at a tech conference. I would expect the CTO/CIO to be giving a talk at a tech conference.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- Mz 10y ago
  Perhaps it is perfectly fine for people to comment on the fact that women whining about this stuff is the worst possible approach to solving it. That the author's desire to be brought in to actually talk about tech is the correct position if you want to make real headway and that her insta-delete policy is brilliant. One of the problems with being a woman in a tech environment is that there is already too much focus on the fact that you are a woman. Like that is something bizarre. Putting additional focus on it and allowing you to only talk about that and not about your actual professional expertise is all kinds of problematic.
ionforce 10y ago
Some people are completely lost on the idea of intent vs the result. If we're not 50/50 on gender balance apparently we're all super racist.
- jordigh 10y ago
  It's pointless to argue about whom to blame as it is to defend oneself against accusations of blame. Fix the problem, not the blame. If there is no gender parity, there is a problem. You didn't do it, I didn't do it, but it still needs to be fixed.
  - redthrowaway 10y ago
    >If there is no gender parity, there is a problem. This seems to be an extraordinary claim made in the complete absence of evidence. Is it a problem that there are more women going into early childhood education or biology, but more men going into petroleum engineering? Why? Why aren't men and women allowed to express their preferences without it being pathologized?
    - busterarm 10y ago
      Right. And I'm all for encouraging more people to get interested in this industry, but I don't do it by pointing my figure at all of the people already working in this industry.
    - kajecounterhack 10y ago
      It wouldn't be a problem if inequality wasn't influenced strongly by negative factors for women. The tech industry is rife with evidence of hostility toward women; IT Barbie and gendered toy marketing are other examples of how women are not on equal footing with regards to entering this industry. And there is also the problem of women being paid less to do the same job. To paint a picture that says the current landscape is "normal" is to overlook a lot of broken things.
      - redthrowaway 10y ago
goshx 10y ago
I had to look for the best talk you've mentioned. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRiV_b3WsoY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRiV_b3WsoY Very good talk indeed.
- RGamma 10y ago
  What's that? "Hey, this is how we quickly engineer simple, yet inaccessible, websites whose drop-down menus break without Javascript? Look!: Your browser only needs 500MB of RAM and 2 seconds of CPU time of your laptop executing the jumbled piece of Javascript that outputs this otherwise trivial HTML and CSS without regard to what these standards actually are intended for!" "Loading..."
  - devhead 10y ago
    tangential argument identified, watch out for this angular hater who appears slightly off topic.
  - xupybd 10y ago
    Inaccessible? Very large markets have access to Javascript and 500MB of ram. If you can reduce costs and time to market you have created value. Even if the result doesn't match some unobtainable technical perfection.

jonnybgood 10y ago

Well, I don't think it's the goal of a CEO of a social organization to give a talk on tech issues. Their focus is on social issues, so I don't see this as a good example.

andkon 10y ago
To say nothing of the fact that it doesn't seem coherent to distinguish between "tech issues" and "social issues," this literally only makes sense if you think that the lack of diverse folks in tech isn't a social issue. That's deeply, deeply wrong. Of course it is a social issue.
- jonnybgood 10y ago
  I didn't say anything contrary to that.
drcoopster 10y ago
Perhaps then she shouldn't have been giving a talk at a tech conference.
- jonnybgood 10y ago
  That falls under the purview of the organizers.
  - ajkjk 10y ago
    But it's well within the public's right to criticize them for doing a bad job at.. 'purviewing'.
    - popmystack 10y ago
      No one is saying it's not. Stick with the subject instead of addressing nothing no one has stated.
    - jonnybgood 10y ago
      I said nothing contrary to that. The choice of who speaks at a tech conference is at the discretion of the organizers. So, criticize the organizers, not the speaker.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
Broken_Hippo 10y ago
What would you expect a male CEO of a social organization to talk about at a tech conference? I suspect that while social issues might come up, the expected talk would be the male CEO focusing the talk on running his organization and the tech that is involved. Perhaps the importance of competent tech or something or another. The actual social issues would merely be highlights, and he'd probably skip talking about the male experience in tech. I'd understand if she were talking about tools they were using to get young women and girls interested in the tech field, as I'd expect this sort of thing with someone involved with Boy Scouts - but this doesn't seem to be the case.
- busterarm 10y ago
  I wouldn't expect the male CEO of a social organization to be giving a talk at a tech conference. I would expect the CTO/CIO to be giving a talk at a tech conference.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
Mz 10y ago
Perhaps it is perfectly fine for people to comment on the fact that women whining about this stuff is the worst possible approach to solving it. That the author's desire to be brought in to actually talk about tech is the correct position if you want to make real headway and that her insta-delete policy is brilliant. One of the problems with being a woman in a tech environment is that there is already too much focus on the fact that you are a woman. Like that is something bizarre. Putting additional focus on it and allowing you to only talk about that and not about your actual professional expertise is all kinds of problematic.

ionforce 10y ago

Some people are completely lost on the idea of intent vs the result. If we're not 50/50 on gender balance apparently we're all super racist.

jordigh 10y ago
It's pointless to argue about whom to blame as it is to defend oneself against accusations of blame. Fix the problem, not the blame. If there is no gender parity, there is a problem. You didn't do it, I didn't do it, but it still needs to be fixed.
- redthrowaway 10y ago
  >If there is no gender parity, there is a problem. This seems to be an extraordinary claim made in the complete absence of evidence. Is it a problem that there are more women going into early childhood education or biology, but more men going into petroleum engineering? Why? Why aren't men and women allowed to express their preferences without it being pathologized?
  - busterarm 10y ago
    Right. And I'm all for encouraging more people to get interested in this industry, but I don't do it by pointing my figure at all of the people already working in this industry.
  - kajecounterhack 10y ago
    It wouldn't be a problem if inequality wasn't influenced strongly by negative factors for women. The tech industry is rife with evidence of hostility toward women; IT Barbie and gendered toy marketing are other examples of how women are not on equal footing with regards to entering this industry. And there is also the problem of women being paid less to do the same job. To paint a picture that says the current landscape is "normal" is to overlook a lot of broken things.
    - redthrowaway 10y ago

goshx 10y ago

I had to look for the best talk you've mentioned. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRiV_b3WsoY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRiV_b3WsoY Very good talk indeed.

RGamma 10y ago
What's that? "Hey, this is how we quickly engineer simple, yet inaccessible, websites whose drop-down menus break without Javascript? Look!: Your browser only needs 500MB of RAM and 2 seconds of CPU time of your laptop executing the jumbled piece of Javascript that outputs this otherwise trivial HTML and CSS without regard to what these standards actually are intended for!" "Loading..."
- devhead 10y ago
  tangential argument identified, watch out for this angular hater who appears slightly off topic.
- xupybd 10y ago
  Inaccessible? Very large markets have access to Javascript and 500MB of ram. If you can reduce costs and time to market you have created value. Even if the result doesn't match some unobtainable technical perfection.