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Russia has some of the best SAMs in the business. They don't need to use jets; Turkish F-16's wouldn't last long if Russia fired up their anti-aircraft system

Russia has some of the best SAMs in the business. They don't need to use jets; Turkish F-16's wouldn't last long if Russia fired up their anti-aircraft systems and engaged.

VLM 10y ago
The details that can be found on wikipedia are astounding. Across the board Turkey has a lot of 80s era gear that's been lightly upgraded over the years and generally the Russians have about 10x the quantity of 2000s to 2010s era gear. For example Turkey has 240 very theoretically active 80s era F-16 planes (how many are not deadlined / mission capable at this instant is a mystery, half maybe?) vs the Russian military theoretically has 1531 active 2000s and newer era SAM launchers. I mean obviously the Russians can not send every anti-aircraft unit they have to a skirmish with the Turks but its instructive that if they did, they'd have roughly 10 missile launchers fighting over the chance to fire on each target... Its a similar situation WRT armor. Turkey has about 400 1980s era Leopard tanks. Russia only has 2500 2000s+ era main battle tanks. Nobody is going to be rolling into the other side's capital any time soon. Also worth keeping in mind the Russians have some recent-ish real combat experience but the Turks only have experience trying to genocide Kurdish civilians.
- nazgob 10y ago
  Where do you got that data? Russia has 2500 2000s+ era MBTs? Where? Which ones? Armata is not in mass production yet. The only other modern tanks you 'could' consider is T-90 and maybe T-72B3 which is deep modernization. Both are old designs actually. Still, it would be hard to find 2000 of them.
- dingaling 10y ago
  Turkey is still building F-16 components under license, feeding the Lockheed-Martin supply line for many customers. I don't believe they have any problems maintaining serviceability. Many have already been upgraded to Block 50 and the most basic are Block 30, all well beyond 1980s capabilities. Avionics maintenance might be an issue but but the Israelis are quite capable of aiding there. Your criticisms were quite valid in the 1980s when both Turkey and Greece were considered liabilities in terms of NATO capability but certainly not today.

Russia has some of the best SAMs in the business. They don't need to use jets; Turkish F-16's wouldn't last long if Russia fired up their anti-aircraft systems and engaged.

VLM 10y ago

The details that can be found on wikipedia are astounding. Across the board Turkey has a lot of 80s era gear that's been lightly upgraded over the years and generally the Russians have about 10x the quantity of 2000s to 2010s era gear. For example Turkey has 240 very theoretically active 80s era F-16 planes (how many are not deadlined / mission capable at this instant is a mystery, half maybe?) vs the Russian military theoretically has 1531 active 2000s and newer era SAM launchers. I mean obviously the Russians can not send every anti-aircraft unit they have to a skirmish with the Turks but its instructive that if they did, they'd have roughly 10 missile launchers fighting over the chance to fire on each target... Its a similar situation WRT armor. Turkey has about 400 1980s era Leopard tanks. Russia only has 2500 2000s+ era main battle tanks. Nobody is going to be rolling into the other side's capital any time soon. Also worth keeping in mind the Russians have some recent-ish real combat experience but the Turks only have experience trying to genocide Kurdish civilians.

nazgob 10y ago
Where do you got that data? Russia has 2500 2000s+ era MBTs? Where? Which ones? Armata is not in mass production yet. The only other modern tanks you 'could' consider is T-90 and maybe T-72B3 which is deep modernization. Both are old designs actually. Still, it would be hard to find 2000 of them.
dingaling 10y ago
Turkey is still building F-16 components under license, feeding the Lockheed-Martin supply line for many customers. I don't believe they have any problems maintaining serviceability. Many have already been upgraded to Block 50 and the most basic are Block 30, all well beyond 1980s capabilities. Avionics maintenance might be an issue but but the Israelis are quite capable of aiding there. Your criticisms were quite valid in the 1980s when both Turkey and Greece were considered liabilities in terms of NATO capability but certainly not today.