4 ms·

For the most part, America had nothing to do with the coup attempt and had no idea that it was about to happen. Honestly, the majority of Americans couldn't fi

by olympus 10y ago

For the most part, America had nothing to do with the coup attempt and had no idea that it was about to happen. Honestly, the majority of Americans couldn't find Turkey on a map even if you centered the map on Turkey. However, I certainly wouldn't be surprised if a few CIA types provided assistance like they've been known (or suspected) to do in South America and other parts of the world. The US government clearly benefits from Turkey having a more secular government and Erdogan is moving the government towards more Islamic rule. So I'm just guessing that in a few weeks a classified document will be leaked that some portion of the US government was involved in the coup attempt and American citizens will all be embarrassed that we can't let other sovereign nations deal with their own business. I hope that it doesn't hurt our relations so much that it hurts any innocent civilians or that we restrict travel. I hear Turkey has some cool castles and is a very interesting place to visit. It's relatively inexpensive and I'd like to go there one day.

steve19 10y ago
You need to make some incredible leaps to assume the USA would be backing a poorly organized coup against a very valuable, even vital, NATO ally. Knowing the CIA's recent performance, most likely they heard about it from watching Fox News.
- olympus 10y ago
  Just like it would be silly to spy on ALL of our important NATO allies? Just because they are an ally doesn't mean that parts of the government wouldn't go through great lengths to get them to do more. They would risk a lot because as mentioned elsewhere in the comments it's not like we're going to go to war.
tim333 10y ago
The coup attempt seemed shockingly incompetent for anything staged by the CIA. Also what would be the motivation?
- pjc50 10y ago
  The history of CIA coup attempts is full of surprising incompetence. How many times did they attempt to assassinate Castro, for example?
- olympus 10y ago
  The motivation would be to remove Erdogan who is moving towards a "less democratic Turkey" and replacing him with a president that is more friendly to the US. Influencing the following election would probably happen as well. A new president could help isolate Russia, provide more advantageous basing agreements for the military, and in general do what the US government wants.
- kabouseng 10y ago
  Not at all like the success the Bay of Pigs was...
thaumasiotes 10y ago
> Honestly, the majority of Americans couldn't find Turkey on a map even if you centered the map on Turkey. You phrase this as though it should somehow be easier to find things on an unfamiliar map than on a familiar one.
- olympus 10y ago
  I'm saying that in general, Americans are uninformed with regards to geography/geopolitics. You could tell them that Turkey borders the Black Sea, the Mediterranean sea, and controls the Bosporous and Darndanelles straits and lots of people would still pick a landlocked country.
  - thaumasiotes 10y ago
    Your example takes this form: <someone> couldn't <X> even if <Y>. That structure only works when Y makes doing X easier. But you've filled in something that makes it harder. You're so caught up in insulting people that you seem to have forgotten how.
breitling 10y ago
>For the most part, America had nothing to do with the coup attempt We can't know that for sure. I wouldn't underestimate our intelligence. Even if they didn't participate, it's likely they were informed. It is rumored that even the Saudis knew of the coup
- olympus 10y ago
  What I meant was, out of a country of 300 million people, basically 0% had anything to do with it. Pretty much every company that has any business or trade that goes through Turkey had nothing to do with it. The number of people that want to be friendly vastly outnumber the others. If there was American involvement, I'd bet that the people that knew about it only number in the dozens. It seems a shame that the actions of a few could affect so many lives this way.
  - sbov 10y ago
    Well, sure, I mean you can say the same thing about almost anything a country holds against another country. But this isn't what people mean when they use these terms.
kristiandupont 10y ago
>America had nothing to do with the coup attempt >a classified document will be leaked that some portion of the US government was involved ..so which is it? Also, how is it relevant whether or not the general American can find Turkey on a map? It's not like diplomacy and foreign intervention is done by the general population.
- olympus 10y ago
  Note that I lead off with "For the most part." The two statements do not contradict each other. The majority of the population can be uninvolved while a small portion of the government gets involved. While diplomacy isn't done directly by the population, it should be supported by the general population. In general Americans are against communism, the war against ISIS/terrorism and support many government actions across the world. They supported invading Iraq (with the information that was provided to them). They supported invading Afghanistan and fighting the Taliban and Al Qaeda. I doubt that most Americans would support action against Turkey at the current state of Erdogan's government.
somenomadicguy 10y ago
As an American in Türkiye, I do not believe that we had anything directly to do with the coup, but I believe we knew about it, and we informed him ahead of time. Until about his recent to the US for Muhamed Ali's funeral, Erdoğan was his usual grumpy-old-grandfather self. He was on television every day spreading conspiracy theories, hatred, and misogyny. Within days of returning, he surpised us all by - Repairing ties with Israel - Sending two ships of aid to Gaza (which was related to the rift with Israel) - Apologizing to Russia - Repairing trade and tourism ties with Russia (which is important. Between construction, agricultural exports and tourism, Russia means 10-15% of Türkiye's economy - Ordering the mayor of Istanbul (half) apologize to a Korean guy whose store was attacked on Ramazan, and chastizing the brutes who lead this attack. - Showing some flexibility about the schools being forced to convert into Imam Hatip (think Madrassa-Lite) - Suggesting that rich and educated Syrians would be given citizenship - Changing his public EU-accession rhetoric from dismissal to willing to negotiate Even before the Atatürk airport attack everybody just knew something was coming, and the more general conspiracy theory was that Kerry either warned him of something coming, or made some pretty serious threats. There is some credibility to this theory. Before the past few attacks embassies sent people home or told them not to show up for work, the Bastille day celebrations at the French Embassies in Ankara and Istanbul were canceled, friends at the US consul told us to stay home and cancel travel plans the day of the Ataturk attack (Surreally I flew back from a vacation 3 hours prior) Unfortunately, Erdoğan has been very emboldened by the Coup, and most of this progress is gone for good. We are hoping this all dies down, but I wouldn't advise visiting here this year. The nationalistic sentiment is very strong, the thugs are all out in force. Well, I wouldn't entirely advise it. The very pleasant direct flight on Turkish Airlines from SFO to IST is about $1k right now. In Taksim nice hotels that used to cost $150/night now cost about $60. Hostels with breakfast are down to $7-$8 pretty much nation-wide. The beach-towns on the EGE & the Med rely almost solely on Russian and British touritsts who no longer come. Pansiyons (think B&B before AirBNB), AirBNB rooms, hotel rooms, and resort packages are almost free. The dollar and the euro are very strong, and the GBP is still respectable. You no longer have to wait in line for attractions like Aga Safiya, the Basilica Cistern, the Topkapi Palace,or wade through a mob of people in the Grand Bazaar or the Spice Market. Unfortunately this means that the music in Istanbul has died. Most of the best venues for Balkan/Turkish music have either shut down or switched to Spotify, many of the regular street musicians have given up. "Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again , come , come" - Rumi
pluma 10y ago
I'll be the last person to sing praises for the CIA's competence but if the CIA had been involved in the coup I certainly would expect at least Erdogan (if not some of his major officials) to be in a casket right now. If there was any CIA involvement, they obviously let the interns run the show.

by olympus 10y ago

steve19 10y ago

You need to make some incredible leaps to assume the USA would be backing a poorly organized coup against a very valuable, even vital, NATO ally. Knowing the CIA's recent performance, most likely they heard about it from watching Fox News.

olympus 10y ago
Just like it would be silly to spy on ALL of our important NATO allies? Just because they are an ally doesn't mean that parts of the government wouldn't go through great lengths to get them to do more. They would risk a lot because as mentioned elsewhere in the comments it's not like we're going to go to war.

tim333 10y ago

The coup attempt seemed shockingly incompetent for anything staged by the CIA. Also what would be the motivation?

pjc50 10y ago
The history of CIA coup attempts is full of surprising incompetence. How many times did they attempt to assassinate Castro, for example?
olympus 10y ago
The motivation would be to remove Erdogan who is moving towards a "less democratic Turkey" and replacing him with a president that is more friendly to the US. Influencing the following election would probably happen as well. A new president could help isolate Russia, provide more advantageous basing agreements for the military, and in general do what the US government wants.
kabouseng 10y ago
Not at all like the success the Bay of Pigs was...

thaumasiotes 10y ago

> Honestly, the majority of Americans couldn't find Turkey on a map even if you centered the map on Turkey. You phrase this as though it should somehow be easier to find things on an unfamiliar map than on a familiar one.

olympus 10y ago
I'm saying that in general, Americans are uninformed with regards to geography/geopolitics. You could tell them that Turkey borders the Black Sea, the Mediterranean sea, and controls the Bosporous and Darndanelles straits and lots of people would still pick a landlocked country.
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  Your example takes this form: <someone> couldn't <X> even if <Y>. That structure only works when Y makes doing X easier. But you've filled in something that makes it harder. You're so caught up in insulting people that you seem to have forgotten how.

breitling 10y ago

>For the most part, America had nothing to do with the coup attempt We can't know that for sure. I wouldn't underestimate our intelligence. Even if they didn't participate, it's likely they were informed. It is rumored that even the Saudis knew of the coup

olympus 10y ago
What I meant was, out of a country of 300 million people, basically 0% had anything to do with it. Pretty much every company that has any business or trade that goes through Turkey had nothing to do with it. The number of people that want to be friendly vastly outnumber the others. If there was American involvement, I'd bet that the people that knew about it only number in the dozens. It seems a shame that the actions of a few could affect so many lives this way.
- sbov 10y ago
  Well, sure, I mean you can say the same thing about almost anything a country holds against another country. But this isn't what people mean when they use these terms.

kristiandupont 10y ago

>America had nothing to do with the coup attempt >a classified document will be leaked that some portion of the US government was involved ..so which is it? Also, how is it relevant whether or not the general American can find Turkey on a map? It's not like diplomacy and foreign intervention is done by the general population.

olympus 10y ago
Note that I lead off with "For the most part." The two statements do not contradict each other. The majority of the population can be uninvolved while a small portion of the government gets involved. While diplomacy isn't done directly by the population, it should be supported by the general population. In general Americans are against communism, the war against ISIS/terrorism and support many government actions across the world. They supported invading Iraq (with the information that was provided to them). They supported invading Afghanistan and fighting the Taliban and Al Qaeda. I doubt that most Americans would support action against Turkey at the current state of Erdogan's government.

somenomadicguy 10y ago

As an American in Türkiye, I do not believe that we had anything directly to do with the coup, but I believe we knew about it, and we informed him ahead of time. Until about his recent to the US for Muhamed Ali's funeral, Erdoğan was his usual grumpy-old-grandfather self. He was on television every day spreading conspiracy theories, hatred, and misogyny. Within days of returning, he surpised us all by - Repairing ties with Israel - Sending two ships of aid to Gaza (which was related to the rift with Israel) - Apologizing to Russia - Repairing trade and tourism ties with Russia (which is important. Between construction, agricultural exports and tourism, Russia means 10-15% of Türkiye's economy - Ordering the mayor of Istanbul (half) apologize to a Korean guy whose store was attacked on Ramazan, and chastizing the brutes who lead this attack. - Showing some flexibility about the schools being forced to convert into Imam Hatip (think Madrassa-Lite) - Suggesting that rich and educated Syrians would be given citizenship - Changing his public EU-accession rhetoric from dismissal to willing to negotiate Even before the Atatürk airport attack everybody just knew something was coming, and the more general conspiracy theory was that Kerry either warned him of something coming, or made some pretty serious threats. There is some credibility to this theory. Before the past few attacks embassies sent people home or told them not to show up for work, the Bastille day celebrations at the French Embassies in Ankara and Istanbul were canceled, friends at the US consul told us to stay home and cancel travel plans the day of the Ataturk attack (Surreally I flew back from a vacation 3 hours prior) Unfortunately, Erdoğan has been very emboldened by the Coup, and most of this progress is gone for good. We are hoping this all dies down, but I wouldn't advise visiting here this year. The nationalistic sentiment is very strong, the thugs are all out in force. Well, I wouldn't entirely advise it. The very pleasant direct flight on Turkish Airlines from SFO to IST is about $1k right now. In Taksim nice hotels that used to cost $150/night now cost about $60. Hostels with breakfast are down to $7-$8 pretty much nation-wide. The beach-towns on the EGE & the Med rely almost solely on Russian and British touritsts who no longer come. Pansiyons (think B&B before AirBNB), AirBNB rooms, hotel rooms, and resort packages are almost free. The dollar and the euro are very strong, and the GBP is still respectable. You no longer have to wait in line for attractions like Aga Safiya, the Basilica Cistern, the Topkapi Palace,or wade through a mob of people in the Grand Bazaar or the Spice Market. Unfortunately this means that the music in Istanbul has died. Most of the best venues for Balkan/Turkish music have either shut down or switched to Spotify, many of the regular street musicians have given up. "Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again , come , come" - Rumi

pluma 10y ago

I'll be the last person to sing praises for the CIA's competence but if the CIA had been involved in the coup I certainly would expect at least Erdogan (if not some of his major officials) to be in a casket right now. If there was any CIA involvement, they obviously let the interns run the show.