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The Turkish government needs to do this because the population generally has quite anti-US sentiments, and they are already vulnerable as the coup showed. Conti

The Turkish government needs to do this because the population generally has quite anti-US sentiments, and they are already vulnerable as the coup showed. Continuing to publically stand with the US would be politically very dangerous for them.

Asooka 10y ago
I wonder what the other NATO members would think of their anti-US stance.
steve19 10y ago
There publicly holding hands, and then there is accusing the US of plotting a coup. Between these two extremes is a vast middle ground they could occupy. If anything the government are fanning the flames, not the other way around. Shoot down a Russian plane and then months later accuse the USA of a plot while arresting thousands of judges ... I worry that this is all the start of something really, really terrible.
- fit2rule 10y ago
  We've been in the middle of something really, really terrible, for rather a few decades, and are not really coherently dealing with it - in the 'royal we', as I personally can state my bit of it - very well. There is a big rush to try to get the world to peacefully co-exist, and technology is doing that. Seriously. At the head of all of the chaos of military action, is a technological breakthrough that cannot be weaponized. We're all still looking for it, because its in the mix, somewhere, but in the meantime: technology of death and warfare is way, way ahead of us. Quick, invent something socially amazing, that cannot be weaponized, and will get everyone - of any nation state and language and cultural background - working and playing and co-existing, together. Its really the only thing we can do while this crazy stuff goes down. Perhaps there is a new rule to be tested, which goes thus: "no two nations which had a functional Pokemon Go community ever went to war with each other" ...
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    > Quick, invent something socially amazing, that cannot be weaponized I'm not sure something like this exists even in theory. Except maybe a benevolent, friendly, superhuman AI that doesn't listen to us. Other than that it seems that absolutely everything can be weaponized. It seems to be a fundamental property of technology as a force multiplier. We call "technology" the things that we create that help people exert their will on the physical world - and violence is, in general, exerting your will against another person.
  - drjesusphd 10y ago
    > Quick, invent something socially amazing, that cannot be weaponized, and will get everyone - of any nation state and language and cultural background - working and playing and co-existing, together. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER
  - ivan_ah 10y ago
    What about free education for kids all over the world? (a standardized curriculum that avoids nationalism, that focusses on group work so students get to know ppl from other countries/cultures at a very early age)
    - wavefunction 10y ago
      How do we all agree on the subject matter when we're willing to kill over those exact beliefs?
pluma 10y ago
It's posturing. The US is an easy target because there's no chance in hell the US and Turkey will go to war and Turkey is irrelevant enough to the US (and important enough as an ally to NATO and Europe) that Erdogan can be sure there will be no consequences. Meanwhile the US's apathy can be exploited for publicity by Erdogan and he can put Europe in a tough spot. The coup wasn't a big threat. Only a fraction of the military was mobilised, all important government officials were able to flee and he was able to turn the entire population against the military because both mosques and TV channels spread his propaganda. The military couldn't have followed through without creating a bloodbath that would have turned the populace even more against them. The coup had already failed the second Erdogan was able to escape.
- ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
  "and important enough as an ally to NATO and Europe" I have to imagine at some point Europe will have had enough of Erdogan.
  - tremon 10y ago
    Europe will have to tolerate Erdogan until it starts reinvesting in its own military. Especially with the UK out of the picture, mainland Europe has very little military capability.
    - nwah1 10y ago
      The UK may be out of the EU, but that hardly means they'll look on collective European security matters with disinterest.
    - usrusr 10y ago
      Europe has been running a pretty sizable shared military investment programme, it's called Greece. One has to wonder how much of their crisis would be left without that NATO-internal arms race vs Turkey (and the cheering exporters in Germany and France who happily supplied both).
guard-of-terra 10y ago
> because the population generally has quite anti-US sentiments Are you assuming that population spontaneously acquires "anti-US sentiments"? I would attribute it to some kind of propaganda campaign, therefore cause and effect will be switched.
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  Or just maybe they have seen the outcome of two American wars on Islamic nations and reached their own conclusions?
  - knowaveragejoe 10y ago
    I imagine that plays a small role if any. Instead, it's a common trope in these countries to blame some external power for their problems - in other words, it's not always the US(though it certainly often is, considering how influential the country is).

Asooka 10y ago

I wonder what the other NATO members would think of their anti-US stance.

steve19 10y ago

There publicly holding hands, and then there is accusing the US of plotting a coup. Between these two extremes is a vast middle ground they could occupy. If anything the government are fanning the flames, not the other way around. Shoot down a Russian plane and then months later accuse the USA of a plot while arresting thousands of judges ... I worry that this is all the start of something really, really terrible.

fit2rule 10y ago
We've been in the middle of something really, really terrible, for rather a few decades, and are not really coherently dealing with it - in the 'royal we', as I personally can state my bit of it - very well. There is a big rush to try to get the world to peacefully co-exist, and technology is doing that. Seriously. At the head of all of the chaos of military action, is a technological breakthrough that cannot be weaponized. We're all still looking for it, because its in the mix, somewhere, but in the meantime: technology of death and warfare is way, way ahead of us. Quick, invent something socially amazing, that cannot be weaponized, and will get everyone - of any nation state and language and cultural background - working and playing and co-existing, together. Its really the only thing we can do while this crazy stuff goes down. Perhaps there is a new rule to be tested, which goes thus: "no two nations which had a functional Pokemon Go community ever went to war with each other" ...
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  > Quick, invent something socially amazing, that cannot be weaponized I'm not sure something like this exists even in theory. Except maybe a benevolent, friendly, superhuman AI that doesn't listen to us. Other than that it seems that absolutely everything can be weaponized. It seems to be a fundamental property of technology as a force multiplier. We call "technology" the things that we create that help people exert their will on the physical world - and violence is, in general, exerting your will against another person.
- drjesusphd 10y ago
  > Quick, invent something socially amazing, that cannot be weaponized, and will get everyone - of any nation state and language and cultural background - working and playing and co-existing, together. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER
- ivan_ah 10y ago
  What about free education for kids all over the world? (a standardized curriculum that avoids nationalism, that focusses on group work so students get to know ppl from other countries/cultures at a very early age)
  - wavefunction 10y ago
    How do we all agree on the subject matter when we're willing to kill over those exact beliefs?

pluma 10y ago

It's posturing. The US is an easy target because there's no chance in hell the US and Turkey will go to war and Turkey is irrelevant enough to the US (and important enough as an ally to NATO and Europe) that Erdogan can be sure there will be no consequences. Meanwhile the US's apathy can be exploited for publicity by Erdogan and he can put Europe in a tough spot. The coup wasn't a big threat. Only a fraction of the military was mobilised, all important government officials were able to flee and he was able to turn the entire population against the military because both mosques and TV channels spread his propaganda. The military couldn't have followed through without creating a bloodbath that would have turned the populace even more against them. The coup had already failed the second Erdogan was able to escape.

ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
"and important enough as an ally to NATO and Europe" I have to imagine at some point Europe will have had enough of Erdogan.
- tremon 10y ago
  Europe will have to tolerate Erdogan until it starts reinvesting in its own military. Especially with the UK out of the picture, mainland Europe has very little military capability.
  - nwah1 10y ago
    The UK may be out of the EU, but that hardly means they'll look on collective European security matters with disinterest.
  - usrusr 10y ago
    Europe has been running a pretty sizable shared military investment programme, it's called Greece. One has to wonder how much of their crisis would be left without that NATO-internal arms race vs Turkey (and the cheering exporters in Germany and France who happily supplied both).

guard-of-terra 10y ago

> because the population generally has quite anti-US sentiments Are you assuming that population spontaneously acquires "anti-US sentiments"? I would attribute it to some kind of propaganda campaign, therefore cause and effect will be switched.

tonyedgecombe 10y ago
Or just maybe they have seen the outcome of two American wars on Islamic nations and reached their own conclusions?
- knowaveragejoe 10y ago
  I imagine that plays a small role if any. Instead, it's a common trope in these countries to blame some external power for their problems - in other words, it's not always the US(though it certainly often is, considering how influential the country is).