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What most people don't realize is that most live forms lower on the chain can read our minds. So if the crow's reaction was different based on what you wanted t

by finid 10y ago

What most people don't realize is that most live forms lower on the chain can read our minds. So if the crow's reaction was different based on what you wanted to throw, it's because it knew what you wanted to do before you did it. It was reading your thoughts. Dogs and cats do it too. A few years ago I went to a farm to buy a goat. The younger goats did not know why I was there, but when an older goat saw me and our eyes met, it knew, and took off.

frankquist 10y ago
Okay, so these are the kinds of things that definitely need a citation ;) In what sense do you mean reading minds? Genuine mind reading, or basically a kind of intuiting about human intention based on say, body language?
- kawsper 10y ago
  Not OP, and I am not talking about mind-reading. But we have domesticated dogs for a long time, and some might argue that they are a lot better and quicker to pick up on our body language, than we are at picking up on theirs. Dog Behaviorists spend a lot of their not training dogs, but training dog owners to understand and read their dog.
- finid 10y ago
  Sorry, no citation. Just my personal knowledge and experience. And it's not just reading body language, but actual reading your thoughts. In the case of the crow, what body language tells it that the guy is about to throw a piece of rock or a bone when it can't SEE the object? I know it's not something I can prove to you, but that doesn't mean it's not happening.
  - icelancer 10y ago
    >I know it's not something I can prove to you, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. Come on man.
  - duncan_bayne 10y ago
    No, that is pretty much the definition of "not happening".
  - bitJericho 10y ago
    Smaller animals are incredibly faster than humans in reaction times because of the difference in the length of their nerves. Birds are also far smarter than people give them credit for. Nothing can read minds tho. That's pure fantasy.
  - andrepd 10y ago
    I'm just curious what your thought process is. I mean, what makes you think something so wacky as reading minds is happening (come on..) when the explanation is probably just that the birds have quick reflexes.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >what body language tells it that the guy is about to throw a piece of rock or a bone when it can't SEE the object? Tons of things, from being able to understand body cues that the guy is up to some BS (like we can tell a liar), to smelling the thing he has in his hands... Plus who said it "couldn't see the thing" in the first place? Even if it couldn't see what in his hand, it could have watched his moves before, as he left the apple and picked up the rock etc.
- praptak 10y ago
  Intuiting is pretty well described in the case of the Clever Hans horse (googleable).
- tripzilch 10y ago
  > In what sense do you mean reading minds? Genuine mind reading, or basically a kind of intuiting about human intention based on say, body language? And by "genuine", he means "magical" ... :-)
coldtea 10y ago
>A few years ago I went to a farm to buy a goat. The younger goats did not know why I was there, but when an older goat saw me and our eyes met, it knew, and took off. It could have took off for 100000 reasons, non of which end being "because it read your mind". For example: it got scared, it did it randomly, is afraid of strangers because it had some bad experience, etc...
- vidarh 10y ago
  The most "advanced" behaviour I'd attribute that to would be possibly having recognised that when strangers come, other goats disappear and don't come back. But I'd expect it to be more likely to just be one of your simpler suggestions. It's just bizarre to attribute it to mind reading, when we'd apply far more mundane reasons if we saw the same behaviour in people.
carapace 10y ago
Don't downvote, it's true. Animals can read your thoughts. The mechanism seems to be that they can see your visualizations: I can call my sister's cat in from outside "telepathically" by clearly "seeing" in my mind's eye the cat walking in the back door and "sending" the imagery to him. Sometimes the if the back door is closed and I'm not distracted by computer or something he "calls" me to open the door. Subjectively, I get this subtle "ping" that feels like "I should open the door for the cat" so I do and he's there waiting. This sort of thing is pretty easy to develop. It's innate, you're already doing it, you just have to learn to pay attention and calibrate.
- cr1895 10y ago
  >Don't downvote, it's true. Animals can read your thoughts. The mechanism seems to be that they can see your visualizations: I can call my sister's cat in from outside "telepathically" by clearly "seeing" in my mind's eye the cat walking in the back door and "sending" the imagery to him. Unsubstantiated nonsense. Your perception that this is a real phenomena is not evidence that it actually exists.
- thedoctor79 10y ago
  No, I'm sorry, you got this wrong. When you do that, you are not "calling" the cat, you are effectively controlling it with your mind eye. You need to be very careful with that, doing it long term can result in damage to the cat.
  - someone7x 10y ago
    I don't know what to say other than I'm sad when I see reddit-ish comment chains like this on HN. Someday I'll be a big kid and be able to downvote, but in the mean time I shake my head.
    - LyndsySimon 10y ago
      I've not seen KenM show up yet, but it's just a matter of time.
  - 10y ago

by finid 10y ago

frankquist 10y ago

Okay, so these are the kinds of things that definitely need a citation ;) In what sense do you mean reading minds? Genuine mind reading, or basically a kind of intuiting about human intention based on say, body language?

kawsper 10y ago
Not OP, and I am not talking about mind-reading. But we have domesticated dogs for a long time, and some might argue that they are a lot better and quicker to pick up on our body language, than we are at picking up on theirs. Dog Behaviorists spend a lot of their not training dogs, but training dog owners to understand and read their dog.
finid 10y ago
Sorry, no citation. Just my personal knowledge and experience. And it's not just reading body language, but actual reading your thoughts. In the case of the crow, what body language tells it that the guy is about to throw a piece of rock or a bone when it can't SEE the object? I know it's not something I can prove to you, but that doesn't mean it's not happening.
- icelancer 10y ago
  >I know it's not something I can prove to you, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. Come on man.
- duncan_bayne 10y ago
  No, that is pretty much the definition of "not happening".
- bitJericho 10y ago
  Smaller animals are incredibly faster than humans in reaction times because of the difference in the length of their nerves. Birds are also far smarter than people give them credit for. Nothing can read minds tho. That's pure fantasy.
- andrepd 10y ago
  I'm just curious what your thought process is. I mean, what makes you think something so wacky as reading minds is happening (come on..) when the explanation is probably just that the birds have quick reflexes.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >what body language tells it that the guy is about to throw a piece of rock or a bone when it can't SEE the object? Tons of things, from being able to understand body cues that the guy is up to some BS (like we can tell a liar), to smelling the thing he has in his hands... Plus who said it "couldn't see the thing" in the first place? Even if it couldn't see what in his hand, it could have watched his moves before, as he left the apple and picked up the rock etc.
praptak 10y ago
Intuiting is pretty well described in the case of the Clever Hans horse (googleable).
tripzilch 10y ago
> In what sense do you mean reading minds? Genuine mind reading, or basically a kind of intuiting about human intention based on say, body language? And by "genuine", he means "magical" ... :-)

coldtea 10y ago

>A few years ago I went to a farm to buy a goat. The younger goats did not know why I was there, but when an older goat saw me and our eyes met, it knew, and took off. It could have took off for 100000 reasons, non of which end being "because it read your mind". For example: it got scared, it did it randomly, is afraid of strangers because it had some bad experience, etc...

vidarh 10y ago
The most "advanced" behaviour I'd attribute that to would be possibly having recognised that when strangers come, other goats disappear and don't come back. But I'd expect it to be more likely to just be one of your simpler suggestions. It's just bizarre to attribute it to mind reading, when we'd apply far more mundane reasons if we saw the same behaviour in people.

carapace 10y ago

Don't downvote, it's true. Animals can read your thoughts. The mechanism seems to be that they can see your visualizations: I can call my sister's cat in from outside "telepathically" by clearly "seeing" in my mind's eye the cat walking in the back door and "sending" the imagery to him. Sometimes the if the back door is closed and I'm not distracted by computer or something he "calls" me to open the door. Subjectively, I get this subtle "ping" that feels like "I should open the door for the cat" so I do and he's there waiting. This sort of thing is pretty easy to develop. It's innate, you're already doing it, you just have to learn to pay attention and calibrate.

cr1895 10y ago
>Don't downvote, it's true. Animals can read your thoughts. The mechanism seems to be that they can see your visualizations: I can call my sister's cat in from outside "telepathically" by clearly "seeing" in my mind's eye the cat walking in the back door and "sending" the imagery to him. Unsubstantiated nonsense. Your perception that this is a real phenomena is not evidence that it actually exists.
thedoctor79 10y ago
No, I'm sorry, you got this wrong. When you do that, you are not "calling" the cat, you are effectively controlling it with your mind eye. You need to be very careful with that, doing it long term can result in damage to the cat.
- someone7x 10y ago
  I don't know what to say other than I'm sad when I see reddit-ish comment chains like this on HN. Someday I'll be a big kid and be able to downvote, but in the mean time I shake my head.
  - LyndsySimon 10y ago
    I've not seen KenM show up yet, but it's just a matter of time.
- 10y ago