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I believe ravens and crows are very similar, this is a personal (long, and not the great) story about a raven I messed around with in Yosemite National Park: W

I believe ravens and crows are very similar, this is a personal (long, and not the great) story about a raven I messed around with in Yosemite National Park: When I was up on north dome (not to be confused with half dome) there was a group of raven's hanging out on the rocks watching us eat our late lunch. I had an apple core that I tossed to the side and watched as a raven warily tried to approach it. I walked over and grabbed the apple core before the raven could grab it so I could entertain myself teasing the raven for a bit before we started down the mountain. I started by putting my arm back ready to throw the apple and as I did that I noticed the raven kneel a bit as if getting ready to launch itself. I thought this was interesting as it showed it was anticipating me throwing the object based on my arm motion. As I relaxed my arm the bird also relaxed. I tried grabbing a rock and again watched it brace itself to launch from the rock then tried switching the apple core and the rock behind my back and tossing the rock hoping the bird would dart after it thinking it was the core. The bird didn't do as I expected and instead just watched me carefully never motioning for the rocks. I tore a piece of the apple from the core behind my back and tossed it just as I had with the rocks and before the piece of apple even left my hand the raven leaped from the rock in its direction. This blew my mind. Not sure how the raven knew it was a chunk of apple and not a rock. I messed around with that particular raven for a good 10-15 minutes tossing various things in its direction, testing its reactions and trying to mess with its little raven mind. All I managed to do however was be impressed at its level of experience in dealing with Yosemite tourists such as myself.

pestaa 10y ago
I'm in love with your writing style.
manojlds 10y ago
> I believe ravens and crows are very similar, Have to ask - read only the article title?
jmnicolas 10y ago
> and trying to mess with its little raven mind don't you get that it was the raven that was playing with your little human mind ? ;-)
- sirtastic 10y ago
  touche raven, touche. At one moment I had the impression I was annoying the raven.
finid 10y ago
What most people don't realize is that most live forms lower on the chain can read our minds. So if the crow's reaction was different based on what you wanted to throw, it's because it knew what you wanted to do before you did it. It was reading your thoughts. Dogs and cats do it too. A few years ago I went to a farm to buy a goat. The younger goats did not know why I was there, but when an older goat saw me and our eyes met, it knew, and took off.
- frankquist 10y ago
  Okay, so these are the kinds of things that definitely need a citation ;) In what sense do you mean reading minds? Genuine mind reading, or basically a kind of intuiting about human intention based on say, body language?
  - kawsper 10y ago
    Not OP, and I am not talking about mind-reading. But we have domesticated dogs for a long time, and some might argue that they are a lot better and quicker to pick up on our body language, than we are at picking up on theirs. Dog Behaviorists spend a lot of their not training dogs, but training dog owners to understand and read their dog.
  - finid 10y ago
    Sorry, no citation. Just my personal knowledge and experience. And it's not just reading body language, but actual reading your thoughts. In the case of the crow, what body language tells it that the guy is about to throw a piece of rock or a bone when it can't SEE the object? I know it's not something I can prove to you, but that doesn't mean it's not happening.
    - icelancer 10y ago
      >I know it's not something I can prove to you, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. Come on man.
    - duncan_bayne 10y ago
krzrak 10y ago
You realize you're not supposed to toss around garbage in the national park?
- heartsucker 10y ago
  Biodegradable apple cores that he was feeding to birds? I think that hardly qualifies.
  - cr1895 10y ago
    Well, ideally "leave no trace" and "don't mess with wildlife" are adhered to when in nature edit: it's also illegal in national parks, carrying up to a $5000 fine and six months in jail
    - heartsucker 10y ago
      Yes, I have spent a lot of time out in nature and parks, and I generally am aware of not leaving a trace or litter. However, with something like a banana peel, I'd rather it end up as tree food the in a landfill, so I usually toss them in bushes.
      - eseehausen 10y ago
        The issue is that leaving food for the animals alters their behavior and can cause issues. You're probably not the worst offender wherever you are, as there are many people who just give food to animals, but the argument would be that it contributes to the problem.
      - gerbilly 10y ago
        Actually banana peels and orange peels don't biodegrade that fast in a north American forest. Apple cores I think might not be too bad to toss, ants can eat that up in a day or two. I pack out the peels of any tropical fruit.
      - waterphone 10y ago
        Please don't do that with banana or orange peels, they remain present for a long time. I have no problem personally with people tossing apple cores in more remote, little-visited areas (though it still makes sense to crack down on such things a bit more in heavily visited areas like National Parks) but various peels don't rot well and remain in place.

pestaa 10y ago

I'm in love with your writing style.

manojlds 10y ago

> I believe ravens and crows are very similar, Have to ask - read only the article title?

jmnicolas 10y ago

> and trying to mess with its little raven mind don't you get that it was the raven that was playing with your little human mind ? ;-)

sirtastic 10y ago
touche raven, touche. At one moment I had the impression I was annoying the raven.

finid 10y ago

What most people don't realize is that most live forms lower on the chain can read our minds. So if the crow's reaction was different based on what you wanted to throw, it's because it knew what you wanted to do before you did it. It was reading your thoughts. Dogs and cats do it too. A few years ago I went to a farm to buy a goat. The younger goats did not know why I was there, but when an older goat saw me and our eyes met, it knew, and took off.

frankquist 10y ago
Okay, so these are the kinds of things that definitely need a citation ;) In what sense do you mean reading minds? Genuine mind reading, or basically a kind of intuiting about human intention based on say, body language?
- kawsper 10y ago
  Not OP, and I am not talking about mind-reading. But we have domesticated dogs for a long time, and some might argue that they are a lot better and quicker to pick up on our body language, than we are at picking up on theirs. Dog Behaviorists spend a lot of their not training dogs, but training dog owners to understand and read their dog.
- finid 10y ago
  Sorry, no citation. Just my personal knowledge and experience. And it's not just reading body language, but actual reading your thoughts. In the case of the crow, what body language tells it that the guy is about to throw a piece of rock or a bone when it can't SEE the object? I know it's not something I can prove to you, but that doesn't mean it's not happening.
  - icelancer 10y ago
    >I know it's not something I can prove to you, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. Come on man.
  - duncan_bayne 10y ago

krzrak 10y ago

You realize you're not supposed to toss around garbage in the national park?

heartsucker 10y ago
Biodegradable apple cores that he was feeding to birds? I think that hardly qualifies.
- cr1895 10y ago
  Well, ideally "leave no trace" and "don't mess with wildlife" are adhered to when in nature edit: it's also illegal in national parks, carrying up to a $5000 fine and six months in jail
  - heartsucker 10y ago
    Yes, I have spent a lot of time out in nature and parks, and I generally am aware of not leaving a trace or litter. However, with something like a banana peel, I'd rather it end up as tree food the in a landfill, so I usually toss them in bushes.
    - eseehausen 10y ago
      The issue is that leaving food for the animals alters their behavior and can cause issues. You're probably not the worst offender wherever you are, as there are many people who just give food to animals, but the argument would be that it contributes to the problem.
    - gerbilly 10y ago
      Actually banana peels and orange peels don't biodegrade that fast in a north American forest. Apple cores I think might not be too bad to toss, ants can eat that up in a day or two. I pack out the peels of any tropical fruit.
    - waterphone 10y ago
      Please don't do that with banana or orange peels, they remain present for a long time. I have no problem personally with people tossing apple cores in more remote, little-visited areas (though it still makes sense to crack down on such things a bit more in heavily visited areas like National Parks) but various peels don't rot well and remain in place.