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At first, this seemed like a politically-motivated editorial that I would consider out-of-place on HN, but then I realized this skunkworks guy has a point. Sea

At first, this seemed like a politically-motivated editorial that I would consider out-of-place on HN, but then I realized this skunkworks guy has a point. Seattle's public transit runs around the Bay Area's in circles right now. The Link light rail is clean, modern, and actually useful. Buses come EVERY TEN MINUTES, and they take you anywhere in the entire Puget Sound. There's even ferries and trains. As tech companies hire more people, you're going to be looking at more gridlock. Think about how packed the 101 has gotten since 2011 when FB and Apple went on their hiring frenzies. This transit packing is about to happen in Seattle (in fact, I consider in many ways the Bay Area to be a leading indicator for what is about to happen in other cities), which is already bottlenecked by two bridges, and Redmond already has the greatest daytime population shift in the US during commute hours. It's a shame that the companies that are causing the problem (Amazon, especially) in Seattle can't help pay for solving the problems they are creating.

loeg 10y ago
Buses come every 15 minutes if you're lucky and they're on time. Most of the time during commute hours one gets bogged down and they stack up (2 come every 20-30 minutes… great). That said, ST3 is better than the alternative.
- techsupporter 10y ago
  The bus that runs outside my house (route 48, in the CD) comes every 10 minutes almost like clockwork for several hours of the day and drops to 15 minutes from end of peak (6pm) until 10pm and then 30 minutes after that until after 1am. That's a vast improvement prior to Seattle's Proposition 1 vote in 2014--wherein we voted to pay for a metric ton of service hours--and the restructure around University Link. I've noticed a marked improvement in other routes I use daily, like the 3/4 pair, route 11, and even the puny 65 up to Lake City. Your point about bus bunching stands, though, if only as an example of how polarized the use of curb space is in this city. "BAT lanes" that aren't well enforced (though I have seen a lot more towing of parked cars out of them as of late) and a dearth of bus-only lanes in favor of preserving on-street parking are just two of my complaints. But service, at least in town, has gotten better in my experience. Hopefully the additional station openings in 2021-2023 will free up even more service hours to fill in gaps and extend the span of service (dare I dream for 24-hour bus[0] service?). 0 - Sound Transit has already said that 24-hour train service is very unlikely until the second train tunnel is online.
- marssaxman 10y ago
  I'm not convinced that ST3 is better than the alternative. If we vote yes, we're locked in to an incomplete transportation network for decades to come, because ST3 isn't even trying to build most of what Seattle needs; ST3 will push the rest of what we need so far into the future that there will be no hope of getting a complete transit network within my lifetime. If we vote no, we have a chance to keep working on it. They'll have to try again in four years. The demographic shift toward reurbanization will continue. Seattle's political power will continue to grow. The ST2 bonds which are limiting us so heavily will continue to expire. We might actually be able to get a better deal if we wait - and we certainly won't get a worse one.
drewrv 10y ago
Amazon did help build the South Lake Union Streetcar and in my mind it's been a huge success: "The majority of property owners along the alignment supported the project, despite being asked to pay increased taxes to fund its construction. Only 12 of 750 affected property owners formally objected to the proposed "Local Improvement District" tax." Without having to tax anyone, some private organizations just pitched in to improve the service: "In May 2011, increasing ridership led the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, Group Health Cooperative, UW Medicine and Amazon.com to underwrite a third streetcar to operate during peak commuting evening hours (4pm – 6pm), reducing headways from 15 minutes to 10." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Lake_Union_Streetcar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Lake_Union_Streetcar The thing was cheap and quick to build. I wish we could just build streetcars all over the whole city instead of this ST3 mess.
- techsupporter 10y ago
  > I wish we could just build streetcars all over the whole city instead of this ST3 mess. Amen to this but I want them only in dedicated lanes, preferably lanes separated from general purpose traffic by more than just paint. A streetcar would be great on, say, 23rd Ave between University Station and Mt Baker Station. Or replace route 7 down Rainier and connect it to the south side of the First Hill Streetcar. (As an aside: the Broadway segment of the FHSC is an example of how not to build them.) Or, if I'm wishing for ponies, start at Carkeek Park and go south on 8th Ave NW, turn right onto NW 85th St to go west until either the terminus of the most northern Ballard Link stop (and that's where you plant the maintenance and operations base for this streetcar) or continue on to the foot of the Ballard Bridge and run the M&O shop into the run down area just south of Ballard Blocks.
- sleepybrett 10y ago
  Except it isn't integrated into anything and so just as pointless as the monorail. It's not worth using for 99% of the residents.
- loeg 10y ago
  Streetcars in shared lanes have some downsides, especially (as a cyclist here) cycle safety. That said, if streetcars are how we're going to get on-time, effective mass transit, I'm for it. Even as a cyclist. Anything to get cars off the road.
perspectivep 10y ago
It's still not great. The train is slow, has way too many stops between Seattle and the airport, and sits too long at each stop. Many of the long distance busses are overcrowded during commute hours and the drivers encourage people to cram in such that people are breathing down your neck the whole way to work. They recently put in street cars that are slow, often blocked by traffic or parked cars, and dangerous to bikers. I have a gut feeling that the billions they're planning on spending on trains would be better spent on more and better busses. The bus experience is usually pretty bad, especially when you have to stand for 40 minutes or sit facing backwards/sideways in an overcrowded bus that's AC can't keep up with all the body heat. That and simply reduce on street parking and ditch all free street parking. Overall, I was pretty happy with Seattle transit until I visited Amsterdam recently. Now I'm jaded.

loeg 10y ago

Buses come every 15 minutes if you're lucky and they're on time. Most of the time during commute hours one gets bogged down and they stack up (2 come every 20-30 minutes… great). That said, ST3 is better than the alternative.

techsupporter 10y ago
The bus that runs outside my house (route 48, in the CD) comes every 10 minutes almost like clockwork for several hours of the day and drops to 15 minutes from end of peak (6pm) until 10pm and then 30 minutes after that until after 1am. That's a vast improvement prior to Seattle's Proposition 1 vote in 2014--wherein we voted to pay for a metric ton of service hours--and the restructure around University Link. I've noticed a marked improvement in other routes I use daily, like the 3/4 pair, route 11, and even the puny 65 up to Lake City. Your point about bus bunching stands, though, if only as an example of how polarized the use of curb space is in this city. "BAT lanes" that aren't well enforced (though I have seen a lot more towing of parked cars out of them as of late) and a dearth of bus-only lanes in favor of preserving on-street parking are just two of my complaints. But service, at least in town, has gotten better in my experience. Hopefully the additional station openings in 2021-2023 will free up even more service hours to fill in gaps and extend the span of service (dare I dream for 24-hour bus[0] service?). 0 - Sound Transit has already said that 24-hour train service is very unlikely until the second train tunnel is online.
marssaxman 10y ago
I'm not convinced that ST3 is better than the alternative. If we vote yes, we're locked in to an incomplete transportation network for decades to come, because ST3 isn't even trying to build most of what Seattle needs; ST3 will push the rest of what we need so far into the future that there will be no hope of getting a complete transit network within my lifetime. If we vote no, we have a chance to keep working on it. They'll have to try again in four years. The demographic shift toward reurbanization will continue. Seattle's political power will continue to grow. The ST2 bonds which are limiting us so heavily will continue to expire. We might actually be able to get a better deal if we wait - and we certainly won't get a worse one.

drewrv 10y ago

Amazon did help build the South Lake Union Streetcar and in my mind it's been a huge success: "The majority of property owners along the alignment supported the project, despite being asked to pay increased taxes to fund its construction. Only 12 of 750 affected property owners formally objected to the proposed "Local Improvement District" tax." Without having to tax anyone, some private organizations just pitched in to improve the service: "In May 2011, increasing ridership led the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, Group Health Cooperative, UW Medicine and Amazon.com to underwrite a third streetcar to operate during peak commuting evening hours (4pm – 6pm), reducing headways from 15 minutes to 10." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Lake_Union_Streetcar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Lake_Union_Streetcar The thing was cheap and quick to build. I wish we could just build streetcars all over the whole city instead of this ST3 mess.

techsupporter 10y ago
> I wish we could just build streetcars all over the whole city instead of this ST3 mess. Amen to this but I want them only in dedicated lanes, preferably lanes separated from general purpose traffic by more than just paint. A streetcar would be great on, say, 23rd Ave between University Station and Mt Baker Station. Or replace route 7 down Rainier and connect it to the south side of the First Hill Streetcar. (As an aside: the Broadway segment of the FHSC is an example of how not to build them.) Or, if I'm wishing for ponies, start at Carkeek Park and go south on 8th Ave NW, turn right onto NW 85th St to go west until either the terminus of the most northern Ballard Link stop (and that's where you plant the maintenance and operations base for this streetcar) or continue on to the foot of the Ballard Bridge and run the M&O shop into the run down area just south of Ballard Blocks.
sleepybrett 10y ago
Except it isn't integrated into anything and so just as pointless as the monorail. It's not worth using for 99% of the residents.
loeg 10y ago
Streetcars in shared lanes have some downsides, especially (as a cyclist here) cycle safety. That said, if streetcars are how we're going to get on-time, effective mass transit, I'm for it. Even as a cyclist. Anything to get cars off the road.

perspectivep 10y ago

It's still not great. The train is slow, has way too many stops between Seattle and the airport, and sits too long at each stop. Many of the long distance busses are overcrowded during commute hours and the drivers encourage people to cram in such that people are breathing down your neck the whole way to work. They recently put in street cars that are slow, often blocked by traffic or parked cars, and dangerous to bikers. I have a gut feeling that the billions they're planning on spending on trains would be better spent on more and better busses. The bus experience is usually pretty bad, especially when you have to stand for 40 minutes or sit facing backwards/sideways in an overcrowded bus that's AC can't keep up with all the body heat. That and simply reduce on street parking and ditch all free street parking. Overall, I was pretty happy with Seattle transit until I visited Amsterdam recently. Now I'm jaded.