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> But fundamentalism was a declining ideology. The EU gave it renewed strength. No it wasn't. what gave you this impression? It has never declined, not in 80's

> But fundamentalism was a declining ideology. The EU gave it renewed strength. No it wasn't. what gave you this impression? It has never declined, not in 80's, not in 90's not in the 2000's. You're like one of those people that look at pictures of Teheran,Iran or Kabul, Afghanistan in the 70's and say "Look at these women without hijab, these countries were liberal back then". Off course not, the majority of the population was still extremely conservative back then. Turkey is no different. The EU did absolutely nothing and had no influence on the strength of fundamentalism in Turkey. Turkey has nobody but itself to blame for that.

gonvaled 10y ago
Look, signals matter. 36 years ago we had a military coup in my country (Spain). We overcame the situation, in part because the King (I am fiercely anti-monarquic, but whatever), opposed the coup. We were obviously the same country, but if the King had supported the coup, I can assure you Spain would be much different (maybe in ruins). That was an internal issue, but this would have worked the same with external signals. Keeping with Spain: if the allies would have interferred in the spanish dictatorship at the end of WWII, we would have spared us a couple of decades of Franco. And so on. Dont try to make me believe that external events do not have any effect. Or, put another way: what would have happened if EU and USA would have supported military coup last friday? (Impossible, I know, since both wouldn't have risked falling on the wrong side, but I digress)
- hx87 10y ago
  > Dont try to make me believe that external events do not have any effect. Nobody here is trying to make you believe that. Perhaps fundamentalism in Turkey was helped along in political power (but not popular support--it's always been strong in rural areas) but EU rejection, but "fundamentalism was going down before the EU blew it up" is a statement without support, since in most of the places where fundamentalism has grown strongest the EU has zero influence.
  - gonvaled 10y ago
    Sorry, maybe I did not understand this bit: > Turkey is no different. The EU did absolutely nothing and had no influence on the strength of fundamentalism in Turkey. Turkey has nobody but itself to blame for that.

gonvaled 10y ago

Look, signals matter. 36 years ago we had a military coup in my country (Spain). We overcame the situation, in part because the King (I am fiercely anti-monarquic, but whatever), opposed the coup. We were obviously the same country, but if the King had supported the coup, I can assure you Spain would be much different (maybe in ruins). That was an internal issue, but this would have worked the same with external signals. Keeping with Spain: if the allies would have interferred in the spanish dictatorship at the end of WWII, we would have spared us a couple of decades of Franco. And so on. Dont try to make me believe that external events do not have any effect. Or, put another way: what would have happened if EU and USA would have supported military coup last friday? (Impossible, I know, since both wouldn't have risked falling on the wrong side, but I digress)

hx87 10y ago
> Dont try to make me believe that external events do not have any effect. Nobody here is trying to make you believe that. Perhaps fundamentalism in Turkey was helped along in political power (but not popular support--it's always been strong in rural areas) but EU rejection, but "fundamentalism was going down before the EU blew it up" is a statement without support, since in most of the places where fundamentalism has grown strongest the EU has zero influence.
- gonvaled 10y ago
  Sorry, maybe I did not understand this bit: > Turkey is no different. The EU did absolutely nothing and had no influence on the strength of fundamentalism in Turkey. Turkey has nobody but itself to blame for that.