9 ms·

Are there any examples of cities or states that have been able to successfully transition from expensive to affordable housing in a non-castastrophic manner? E

by kqr2 10y ago

Are there any examples of cities or states that have been able to successfully transition from expensive to affordable housing in a non-castastrophic manner? Even at a more local level ( https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/14/sf-housing/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/14/sf-housing/ ), the problem is complex with many stakeholders. How do you get everyone to agree and try to reach a better solution?

hiou 10y ago
Nope. Brexit style armchair quarterbacks all the way down.
ktRolster 10y ago
Governor Brown has a bill that will help a lot with thee problems: http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/real-estate/2016/05/brown-affordable-housing-development-approval-ceqa.html http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/real-estate/201...
- 1_2__3 10y ago
  > new projects with 20 percent affordable housing for tenants making no more than 80 percent of the area median income or projects with 10 percent affordable housing near transit would be exempt from most local reviews. That sounds great, but think of it this way: a 200-unit luxury apartment complex that includes a shithole in the back with 40 units that lack parking and a separate access door would be exempt from local oversight. Does that sound like a pattern for success to you?
  - ktRolster 10y ago
    If you have a better idea, I'm really interested in hearing it.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - hx87 10y ago
    Still better than no development at all.
  - warcher 10y ago
    More stock is more stock. The guys moving into the rich condos live somewhere now, presumably somewhere worse, since they want to move. It's demonstrably effective in freeing up lower income apartments. Perhaps these lower income apartments are still going to be expensive, and available only to whatever you define as the "wrong kind of people", but you gotta start someplace.
    - st3v3r 10y ago
      No, it really isn't. That's basically the equivalent of trickle-down economics, which has been shown to be a failure.
    - muzz 10y ago
      There was an article that something like 45% of new units are bought by foreigners and people from other metros.
      - warcher 10y ago
        Sure, but that presupposes that they aren't buying units already. I don't think that's likely.
- kqr2 10y ago
  Although this prevents city reviews for housing that meets this requirement, can cities simply rezone to prevent this? In other words, can cities simply down zone desirable areas and force the developer to apply for exemptions on a case by case basis which is tantamount to the current city reviews?
  - raldi 10y ago
    Downzoning requires CEQA review. There's no way an environmental review is going to conclude that increased sprawl is good for the environment.
uola 10y ago
It essentially never happens. What can happen is that you develop new neighborhoods so the city overall becomes less expensive. Edit: If you disagree it's quite simple to simple mentioning the relevant market were this has happened instead of downvoting. This emotionalism of HN is really getting annoying these days. Prices almost never go down organically because it actually gets harder to build as things gets more developed, stake holders would have to take real losses to the detriment of the local economy, housing in these areas are almost essentially always a sellers market etc. The "just build more" meme on HN is BS. In essentially no popular cities where this have been done have prices gone down or necessarily stabilized including the common examples of NY, HK or Paris.
Futurebot 10y ago
The tragedy of the anti-commons, which is part of what drives all this, necessitates government action over the desires of stakeholders, so while we could avoid "catastrophe," we're unlikely to make every stakeholder involved happy. Things like eminent domain, actual public housing (need to repeal QWHRA), and new policies that support renting (Germany, Singapore, and Austria are great examples of quite varied housing policy that manage to give renters relatively cheap housing.) Check out the Vienna system: http://www.governing.com/topics/economic-dev/gov-affordable-luxurious-housing-in-vienna.html http://www.governing.com/topics/economic-dev/gov-affordable-... We'd need a radical cultural change to allow that kind of thing here, but considering how things are going with prices, this is a good time for a real change.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

by kqr2 10y ago

hiou 10y ago

Nope. Brexit style armchair quarterbacks all the way down.

ktRolster 10y ago

Governor Brown has a bill that will help a lot with thee problems: http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/real-estate/2016/05/brown-affordable-housing-development-approval-ceqa.html http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/real-estate/201...

1_2__3 10y ago
> new projects with 20 percent affordable housing for tenants making no more than 80 percent of the area median income or projects with 10 percent affordable housing near transit would be exempt from most local reviews. That sounds great, but think of it this way: a 200-unit luxury apartment complex that includes a shithole in the back with 40 units that lack parking and a separate access door would be exempt from local oversight. Does that sound like a pattern for success to you?
- ktRolster 10y ago
  If you have a better idea, I'm really interested in hearing it.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- hx87 10y ago
  Still better than no development at all.
- warcher 10y ago
  More stock is more stock. The guys moving into the rich condos live somewhere now, presumably somewhere worse, since they want to move. It's demonstrably effective in freeing up lower income apartments. Perhaps these lower income apartments are still going to be expensive, and available only to whatever you define as the "wrong kind of people", but you gotta start someplace.
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    No, it really isn't. That's basically the equivalent of trickle-down economics, which has been shown to be a failure.
  - muzz 10y ago
    There was an article that something like 45% of new units are bought by foreigners and people from other metros.
    - warcher 10y ago
      Sure, but that presupposes that they aren't buying units already. I don't think that's likely.
kqr2 10y ago
Although this prevents city reviews for housing that meets this requirement, can cities simply rezone to prevent this? In other words, can cities simply down zone desirable areas and force the developer to apply for exemptions on a case by case basis which is tantamount to the current city reviews?
- raldi 10y ago
  Downzoning requires CEQA review. There's no way an environmental review is going to conclude that increased sprawl is good for the environment.

uola 10y ago

It essentially never happens. What can happen is that you develop new neighborhoods so the city overall becomes less expensive. Edit: If you disagree it's quite simple to simple mentioning the relevant market were this has happened instead of downvoting. This emotionalism of HN is really getting annoying these days. Prices almost never go down organically because it actually gets harder to build as things gets more developed, stake holders would have to take real losses to the detriment of the local economy, housing in these areas are almost essentially always a sellers market etc. The "just build more" meme on HN is BS. In essentially no popular cities where this have been done have prices gone down or necessarily stabilized including the common examples of NY, HK or Paris.

Futurebot 10y ago

The tragedy of the anti-commons, which is part of what drives all this, necessitates government action over the desires of stakeholders, so while we could avoid "catastrophe," we're unlikely to make every stakeholder involved happy. Things like eminent domain, actual public housing (need to repeal QWHRA), and new policies that support renting (Germany, Singapore, and Austria are great examples of quite varied housing policy that manage to give renters relatively cheap housing.) Check out the Vienna system: http://www.governing.com/topics/economic-dev/gov-affordable-luxurious-housing-in-vienna.html http://www.governing.com/topics/economic-dev/gov-affordable-... We'd need a radical cultural change to allow that kind of thing here, but considering how things are going with prices, this is a good time for a real change.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]