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The recruiter guilting you is the recruiter acting out their anger that you didn't earn them their $25k or whatever. They get whatever exorbitant cut they do sp

The recruiter guilting you is the recruiter acting out their anger that you didn't earn them their $25k or whatever. They get whatever exorbitant cut they do specifically because of the risk that they assume. I backed out of a new job on a Thursday when I was scheduled to start on Monday. Recruiter was super nasty to me. It was unfortunate to back out when I did, but that's when the offer came in, and they were offering me 65k against 93k. That kind of conflict is baked into the relationship. It's not their fault, not exactly, but it's their job to handle rejection with professionalism and grace, not by pouting. Edit: I said "when the offer came in." What I meant was the competing offer that paid ~30k more. Timeline: Company A offers, I accept. I interview at company B. Company B offers me 30k more. I cancel with company A. Hilarity ensues.

GeneralMayhem 10y ago
What company couldn't be bothered to put an offer on paper until three days before you were supposed to start, and then had the gall to be upset? Please name and shame, that's completely unacceptable.
- cdibona 10y ago
  Who accepts an offer and schedules their first day of work without knowing what they will be paid? No one, that's who...
  - logfromblammo 10y ago
    Welcome to the world of "at will" mercenaries. I was once offered a job with a start date two weeks in the future, and then I got a call the day before I was set to start which told me I ought not bother showing up the next day, because the position had been cancelled. The job was with American Family Insurance, and instead of starting that new job, I instead called my agent to cancel all my policies with them. So now, I have no reservations whatsoever about accepting a [non-contract] offer and making an appointment to show up for a new job, then continuing to interview right up to my new start date, or even a little while after. If I cancel the day before, the company should simply be glad that I didn't work one day then quit, because then they would have to process payroll and tax forms for the whole year. Scheduling the first day costs me nothing. That's just a deadline for the company to put their written promise of payment for my labor into my hands. If it doesn't show up, neither do I. The company would then receive a call, and I would say that I was unable to start work because I didn't have a signed offer letter. If I get a better offer in the interim, I might accept it, and let the first company know they were outbid. So far, I have only ever skipped a "start work" appointment with Deluxe, and I decided not to show up for work because their recruiter lied to me multiple times, and processed me in to a job description radically different from the one I had been seeking. If you want assurance that I will show up after accepting an offer, give me an actual contract. An "at will" offer letter just says that if I work for you, you will pay me $X, N times per year. Do not fear interviewing while employed. Do not fear it if you are "at will". Do not fear it if you are under contract. The company is not going to sacrifice a single penny of its profits for your personal welfare, so you have to see to your own financial security. You always have to assume that the contract will not be renewed or extended, or that the next all hands meeting will be to fire everyone. Therefore, you owe it to yourself to seek alternate employment at any time, and accept or reject offers in the spirit in which they were given. An "at will" offer could be for any number of days from zero until your retirement target, and that level of uncertain commitment from your employer is not sufficient by itself to generate any level of certain commitment from you. You don't have to put bait on your hook, but your line should always be in the water. And if you catch a fish, you can always throw it back rather than eat it.
noname123 10y ago
This. Recruiter's daily job is to talk to people to convince and pressure them for positions that are potentially undesirable (otherwise, the roles will be handled by an internal recruiter or filled very quickly); it is a cold-calling sales job where rejections and cold feet are common, and the final closing are far and between. Their emotional response to rejections should be equivalent to a programmer's emotional response to debugging a difficult trace-stack error. However, their job is also to elicit emotional response from their applicant-side to further pressure them if the applicant is sitting on the fence, sure most of you whom have experienced the sales cycle have heard the following: e.g., * "I need to feed my family..." (everyone has to make a living to feed their family) * "[The hiring manager] told me specifically 'make sure to get this guy', we worked really hard on getting this package ready for you..." (every car sales involve printing a standard package, the sales person didn't handwrite a love letter addressed to you) One time, I've received a particularly nasty call from a recruiter because I made up my mind, turned down a job offer and addressed the e-mail directly to the hiring manager cc'd to recruiter instead of just to the recruiter. The recruiter was upset and said that "[I] burned all bridges now for any alternative negotiations... and that's why I make the big bucks."; never mind that the hiring manager was very polite and replied that "next time, if you are interested; feel free to e-mail me directly". The whole experience taught me that most of the time, the recruiter (agency) is not on your side and some of the time, they're not even on the hiring company's side either; they like everyone else, is frying the fish for themselves.
- djsumdog 10y ago
  I really despise all things recruiter. I frequently hang up on them. They are the scum of the industry. I've had several jobs I've gotten via recruiter and several that were direct hire. In every single case, the direct hire jobs were better (quality of the work environment, treatment, quality of the software and environments .. I'd even dare the say the quality of the team/other employees in some cases). Another thing about the writer of this article; he mentions his loyalty and how it felt like he was "cheating on his wife". You should never feel loyal to a company. It's not a personal relationship. I talk about it a bit in this writeup: http://khanism.org/society/loyalty/ http://khanism.org/society/loyalty/
someone7x 10y ago
Yes exactly this. I had the same experience a few months ago. I interviewed and got a great offer. My company countered with "how about we match the offer AND you get to work on whatever you want". I decided to decline the offer (and stay put) and the recruiter's boss actually called me and tried to pressure and guilt me into taking the offer. I kept saying to him that it's unreasonable for him to expect me to take offers just because they exist and that he should know better than most that this is a possible outcome when recruiting. I get the argument that there's money on the line, but there was money on the line for everyone involved. A recruiter should be mindful of the risks so they aren't devastated by the inevitable unwanted outcomes.
- draw_down 10y ago
  Not that anyone was under any illusions about recruiters, but this is how they show they don't give a shit about putting the right person in the right position. Just butts in seats and cashing checks.

GeneralMayhem 10y ago

What company couldn't be bothered to put an offer on paper until three days before you were supposed to start, and then had the gall to be upset? Please name and shame, that's completely unacceptable.

cdibona 10y ago
Who accepts an offer and schedules their first day of work without knowing what they will be paid? No one, that's who...
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  Welcome to the world of "at will" mercenaries. I was once offered a job with a start date two weeks in the future, and then I got a call the day before I was set to start which told me I ought not bother showing up the next day, because the position had been cancelled. The job was with American Family Insurance, and instead of starting that new job, I instead called my agent to cancel all my policies with them. So now, I have no reservations whatsoever about accepting a [non-contract] offer and making an appointment to show up for a new job, then continuing to interview right up to my new start date, or even a little while after. If I cancel the day before, the company should simply be glad that I didn't work one day then quit, because then they would have to process payroll and tax forms for the whole year. Scheduling the first day costs me nothing. That's just a deadline for the company to put their written promise of payment for my labor into my hands. If it doesn't show up, neither do I. The company would then receive a call, and I would say that I was unable to start work because I didn't have a signed offer letter. If I get a better offer in the interim, I might accept it, and let the first company know they were outbid. So far, I have only ever skipped a "start work" appointment with Deluxe, and I decided not to show up for work because their recruiter lied to me multiple times, and processed me in to a job description radically different from the one I had been seeking. If you want assurance that I will show up after accepting an offer, give me an actual contract. An "at will" offer letter just says that if I work for you, you will pay me $X, N times per year. Do not fear interviewing while employed. Do not fear it if you are "at will". Do not fear it if you are under contract. The company is not going to sacrifice a single penny of its profits for your personal welfare, so you have to see to your own financial security. You always have to assume that the contract will not be renewed or extended, or that the next all hands meeting will be to fire everyone. Therefore, you owe it to yourself to seek alternate employment at any time, and accept or reject offers in the spirit in which they were given. An "at will" offer could be for any number of days from zero until your retirement target, and that level of uncertain commitment from your employer is not sufficient by itself to generate any level of certain commitment from you. You don't have to put bait on your hook, but your line should always be in the water. And if you catch a fish, you can always throw it back rather than eat it.

noname123 10y ago

This. Recruiter's daily job is to talk to people to convince and pressure them for positions that are potentially undesirable (otherwise, the roles will be handled by an internal recruiter or filled very quickly); it is a cold-calling sales job where rejections and cold feet are common, and the final closing are far and between. Their emotional response to rejections should be equivalent to a programmer's emotional response to debugging a difficult trace-stack error. However, their job is also to elicit emotional response from their applicant-side to further pressure them if the applicant is sitting on the fence, sure most of you whom have experienced the sales cycle have heard the following: e.g., * "I need to feed my family..." (everyone has to make a living to feed their family) * "[The hiring manager] told me specifically 'make sure to get this guy', we worked really hard on getting this package ready for you..." (every car sales involve printing a standard package, the sales person didn't handwrite a love letter addressed to you) One time, I've received a particularly nasty call from a recruiter because I made up my mind, turned down a job offer and addressed the e-mail directly to the hiring manager cc'd to recruiter instead of just to the recruiter. The recruiter was upset and said that "[I] burned all bridges now for any alternative negotiations... and that's why I make the big bucks."; never mind that the hiring manager was very polite and replied that "next time, if you are interested; feel free to e-mail me directly". The whole experience taught me that most of the time, the recruiter (agency) is not on your side and some of the time, they're not even on the hiring company's side either; they like everyone else, is frying the fish for themselves.

djsumdog 10y ago
I really despise all things recruiter. I frequently hang up on them. They are the scum of the industry. I've had several jobs I've gotten via recruiter and several that were direct hire. In every single case, the direct hire jobs were better (quality of the work environment, treatment, quality of the software and environments .. I'd even dare the say the quality of the team/other employees in some cases). Another thing about the writer of this article; he mentions his loyalty and how it felt like he was "cheating on his wife". You should never feel loyal to a company. It's not a personal relationship. I talk about it a bit in this writeup: http://khanism.org/society/loyalty/ http://khanism.org/society/loyalty/

someone7x 10y ago

Yes exactly this. I had the same experience a few months ago. I interviewed and got a great offer. My company countered with "how about we match the offer AND you get to work on whatever you want". I decided to decline the offer (and stay put) and the recruiter's boss actually called me and tried to pressure and guilt me into taking the offer. I kept saying to him that it's unreasonable for him to expect me to take offers just because they exist and that he should know better than most that this is a possible outcome when recruiting. I get the argument that there's money on the line, but there was money on the line for everyone involved. A recruiter should be mindful of the risks so they aren't devastated by the inevitable unwanted outcomes.

draw_down 10y ago
Not that anyone was under any illusions about recruiters, but this is how they show they don't give a shit about putting the right person in the right position. Just butts in seats and cashing checks.