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> Those algorithms are also designed by humans But the humans would have to explicitly build the biases into the algorithm. Many human biases are unconscious

> Those algorithms are also designed by humans But the humans would have to explicitly build the biases into the algorithm. Many human biases are unconscious, so we aren't aware that our conclusions are biased by race, a subject's attractiveness, etc. Going with an algorithm would minimize unconscious biases, and prevent us from reaching a conclusion based on emotion and then just back-fitting a rational-sounding argument.

coldtea 10y ago
>But the humans would have to explicitly build the biases into the algorithm. Explicitly as in coding them, but not necessarily as doing it consciously. After all biases are just how people see reality, so it would be natural to code based on one's biases. Also it's less the biases (that are inevitable), and more the blind following of biases (algorithmically) that I'm concerned about. >Going with an algorithm would minimize unconscious biases, and prevent us from reaching a conclusion based on emotion The latter is not necessarily (or even commonly) bad, it's more of a citation needed kind of thing. I'd rather we DO reach conclusions based on emotions. Naked logic sees everything as black and white, it's emotions that make civilisation nuanced (including empathy, pity, gut instinct, abhorrence, etc).
- sdenton4 10y ago
  Racists have emotions, too, and often make decisions based on them. 'Feeling' that someone is suspicious is a classic cover for racial profiling.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >Racists have emotions, too, and often make decisions based on them And knives can be used both for murdering people and spreading jam on your bread. The answer to "racist emotions" are emotions of empathy and love towards the other, and not some objective logic that one can follow to fix racism. After all, one could always use objective logic to justify racism if one wants to -- e.g. "blacks are involved in a higher percentage of violent crimes compared to their population". That's a totally objective statement, it just skips trying to find the reasons why that might be so, and uses the numbers to justify thinking of them as violent inherently.
- armitron 10y ago
  It's a lot harder to hide biases in code than you assume. Even if that takes place, code can be updated and those biases can be removed, easily. If they're not removed, at least we know what they are. Can you do the same with the human subconscious? Maybe, given lots of time and effort. How do you evaluate success? Can you do it at scale? I don't think so.

coldtea 10y ago

>But the humans would have to explicitly build the biases into the algorithm. Explicitly as in coding them, but not necessarily as doing it consciously. After all biases are just how people see reality, so it would be natural to code based on one's biases. Also it's less the biases (that are inevitable), and more the blind following of biases (algorithmically) that I'm concerned about. >Going with an algorithm would minimize unconscious biases, and prevent us from reaching a conclusion based on emotion The latter is not necessarily (or even commonly) bad, it's more of a citation needed kind of thing. I'd rather we DO reach conclusions based on emotions. Naked logic sees everything as black and white, it's emotions that make civilisation nuanced (including empathy, pity, gut instinct, abhorrence, etc).

sdenton4 10y ago
Racists have emotions, too, and often make decisions based on them. 'Feeling' that someone is suspicious is a classic cover for racial profiling.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >Racists have emotions, too, and often make decisions based on them And knives can be used both for murdering people and spreading jam on your bread. The answer to "racist emotions" are emotions of empathy and love towards the other, and not some objective logic that one can follow to fix racism. After all, one could always use objective logic to justify racism if one wants to -- e.g. "blacks are involved in a higher percentage of violent crimes compared to their population". That's a totally objective statement, it just skips trying to find the reasons why that might be so, and uses the numbers to justify thinking of them as violent inherently.
armitron 10y ago
It's a lot harder to hide biases in code than you assume. Even if that takes place, code can be updated and those biases can be removed, easily. If they're not removed, at least we know what they are. Can you do the same with the human subconscious? Maybe, given lots of time and effort. How do you evaluate success? Can you do it at scale? I don't think so.