4 ms·

Yes, I took it for several days and developed an annoying headache/feeling. It did not, at all, improve cognitive function. In my case it impaired it. YMMV of

Yes, I took it for several days and developed an annoying headache/feeling. It did not, at all, improve cognitive function. In my case it impaired it. YMMV of course. I've had far better luck with fish oil (Omega-3 supplements), taken every morning with earl grey tea. The fish oil helps me concentrate, while the tea releases caffeine more slowly than coffee does, preventing jitteriness and extending its duration.

Devilboy 17y ago
I've heard that the headache is due to a lack of choline, and that most people should be taking a choline supplement with their racetams.
- itistoday 17y ago
  I think I read that as well, but decided against it because the literature wasn't convincing enough (i.e., hearsay on forum posts), and I wasn't thrilled with ingesting, and possibly becoming dependent on so many substances.
  - metamemetics 17y ago
    Choline is a natural compound, you can get it by eating eggs. Most people take it as a supplement the same time with piracetam, you can buy them combined as well. It's definitely discussed in research as well as forums: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7301036 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7301036 "The results of these studies demonstrate that the effects of combining choline and piracetam are quite different than those obtained with either drug alone"
    - itistoday 17y ago
      Thanks for the pubmed link, didn't see that. As far as choline goes, I eat an egg every day, and get my vitamins and minerals from fresh fruits, veggies and legumes. Just as you can obtain Vitamin-C or choline from a supplement, so too can you obtain them from natural sources. From what I understand of nutrition, the natural sources deliver the same nutrients in ways that our bodies can metabolize better. I'm open to trying piracetam again, but it just doesn't seem all that significant to justify even the extra cost of buying it (and the supplements) and becoming dependent on it. If someone here actually does think it's worth it, I'd be very interested in hearing from you, provided you don't own a nootropics business.
      - gwern 17y ago
        One egg isn't going to do it. One egg gets you <200mg of choline, if I remember my research right, while you need more like >1000mg/1g to really see piracetam's effects. My DNB scores improved more with piracetam+choline than just piracetam: http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/thread/4f52e50ef2c0e64/b867b21b76be7895 http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/...
stretchwithme 17y ago
Fish oil helps my mood too. You may want to be make sure that the fish oil is molecularly distilled to minimize your exposure to mercury and PCBs.
- itistoday 17y ago
  Yes, very good point, the brand I get does do that (Nature Made Liquid Softgels Odorless 1200mg).
  - rsheridan6 17y ago
    Or maybe not... http://thestockmasters.com/Fish-Oil-Supplements-PCB-03032010 http://thestockmasters.com/Fish-Oil-Supplements-PCB-03032010
    - itistoday 17y ago
      Thanks for the link! I'd certainly believe it. The amount of toxins man has put into the ocean is mind-boggling, so it's not a surprise if, even though they say on the damn bottle that they filter PCBs, that they're still there. Edit: However, it looks like the one mentioned in the article is not the same one I use. The one in the article is Cod Liver oil. Still, that's no reason to assume the other one is safe, as this is quite a global problem.
      - rsheridan6 17y ago
        Take a second look - it says Nature Made cod liver oil and odorless fish oil. If only they said which ones DON'T have pcbs.
lsb 17y ago
To make fish oil, you need fish that are low enough in the food chain to not have many PCBs. Fish oil is usually made from the menhaden fish (aka the alewife fish), which used to be plentiful all around the Atlantic coastline of the US, feeding on algae. With all those fish turned into fish oil pellets, there are massive algae blooms, and the food chain's getting disrupted. See http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/03/23/menhaden/ http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/03/23/menhaden/ and http://motherjones.com/environment/2006/03/ill-take-menhaden http://motherjones.com/environment/2006/03/ill-take-menhaden
- itistoday 17y ago
  Thanks for that! Any recommendations on alternatives? I find other sources of Omega3 (flax seed) to be not as good unfortunately...
  - vps2000 17y ago
    http://www.v-pure.com/ http://www.v-pure.com/ DHA and EPA are made by algae. You can extract it from the algae instead of the fish who eat the algae (or the fish who eat the fish who eat the algae...). There are other brands, too: http://www.pangeaveg.com/index.html?stocknumber=633 http://www.pangeaveg.com/index.html?stocknumber=633 "OMega-3-DHA contains DHA that is extracted from microalgae, which is grown in fermentation tanks derived from cultures of golden marine algae isolated from the Pacific Ocean." http://www.pangeaveg.com/index.html?stocknumber=642 http://www.pangeaveg.com/index.html?stocknumber=642

Devilboy 17y ago

I've heard that the headache is due to a lack of choline, and that most people should be taking a choline supplement with their racetams.

itistoday 17y ago
I think I read that as well, but decided against it because the literature wasn't convincing enough (i.e., hearsay on forum posts), and I wasn't thrilled with ingesting, and possibly becoming dependent on so many substances.
- metamemetics 17y ago
  Choline is a natural compound, you can get it by eating eggs. Most people take it as a supplement the same time with piracetam, you can buy them combined as well. It's definitely discussed in research as well as forums: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7301036 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7301036 "The results of these studies demonstrate that the effects of combining choline and piracetam are quite different than those obtained with either drug alone"
  - itistoday 17y ago
    Thanks for the pubmed link, didn't see that. As far as choline goes, I eat an egg every day, and get my vitamins and minerals from fresh fruits, veggies and legumes. Just as you can obtain Vitamin-C or choline from a supplement, so too can you obtain them from natural sources. From what I understand of nutrition, the natural sources deliver the same nutrients in ways that our bodies can metabolize better. I'm open to trying piracetam again, but it just doesn't seem all that significant to justify even the extra cost of buying it (and the supplements) and becoming dependent on it. If someone here actually does think it's worth it, I'd be very interested in hearing from you, provided you don't own a nootropics business.
    - gwern 17y ago
      One egg isn't going to do it. One egg gets you <200mg of choline, if I remember my research right, while you need more like >1000mg/1g to really see piracetam's effects. My DNB scores improved more with piracetam+choline than just piracetam: http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/thread/4f52e50ef2c0e64/b867b21b76be7895 http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/...

stretchwithme 17y ago

Fish oil helps my mood too. You may want to be make sure that the fish oil is molecularly distilled to minimize your exposure to mercury and PCBs.

itistoday 17y ago
Yes, very good point, the brand I get does do that (Nature Made Liquid Softgels Odorless 1200mg).
- rsheridan6 17y ago
  Or maybe not... http://thestockmasters.com/Fish-Oil-Supplements-PCB-03032010 http://thestockmasters.com/Fish-Oil-Supplements-PCB-03032010
  - itistoday 17y ago
    Thanks for the link! I'd certainly believe it. The amount of toxins man has put into the ocean is mind-boggling, so it's not a surprise if, even though they say on the damn bottle that they filter PCBs, that they're still there. Edit: However, it looks like the one mentioned in the article is not the same one I use. The one in the article is Cod Liver oil. Still, that's no reason to assume the other one is safe, as this is quite a global problem.
    - rsheridan6 17y ago
      Take a second look - it says Nature Made cod liver oil and odorless fish oil. If only they said which ones DON'T have pcbs.

lsb 17y ago

To make fish oil, you need fish that are low enough in the food chain to not have many PCBs. Fish oil is usually made from the menhaden fish (aka the alewife fish), which used to be plentiful all around the Atlantic coastline of the US, feeding on algae. With all those fish turned into fish oil pellets, there are massive algae blooms, and the food chain's getting disrupted. See http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/03/23/menhaden/ http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/03/23/menhaden/ and http://motherjones.com/environment/2006/03/ill-take-menhaden http://motherjones.com/environment/2006/03/ill-take-menhaden

itistoday 17y ago
Thanks for that! Any recommendations on alternatives? I find other sources of Omega3 (flax seed) to be not as good unfortunately...
- vps2000 17y ago
  http://www.v-pure.com/ http://www.v-pure.com/ DHA and EPA are made by algae. You can extract it from the algae instead of the fish who eat the algae (or the fish who eat the fish who eat the algae...). There are other brands, too: http://www.pangeaveg.com/index.html?stocknumber=633 http://www.pangeaveg.com/index.html?stocknumber=633 "OMega-3-DHA contains DHA that is extracted from microalgae, which is grown in fermentation tanks derived from cultures of golden marine algae isolated from the Pacific Ocean." http://www.pangeaveg.com/index.html?stocknumber=642 http://www.pangeaveg.com/index.html?stocknumber=642