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I've been interested in piracetam for a while. Anybody with personal experience? Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pir

by RevRal 17y ago

I've been interested in piracetam for a while. Anybody with personal experience? Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam

jamesbritt 17y ago
I'm I tried Piracetam, Vasopressin, and Lucidril back in the '80s. I was trying all sorts of nootropics, both straight-up drugs and nutritional supplements back then. Piracetam may have worked, but at the end of my experiments I found that about the best thing was boosting phenylalanine to help with caffeine. Part of this may have been that getting a steady supply of many things (such as Piracetam) was both difficult and expensive in the USA.
itistoday 17y ago
Yes, I took it for several days and developed an annoying headache/feeling. It did not, at all, improve cognitive function. In my case it impaired it. YMMV of course. I've had far better luck with fish oil (Omega-3 supplements), taken every morning with earl grey tea. The fish oil helps me concentrate, while the tea releases caffeine more slowly than coffee does, preventing jitteriness and extending its duration.
- Devilboy 17y ago
  I've heard that the headache is due to a lack of choline, and that most people should be taking a choline supplement with their racetams.
  - itistoday 17y ago
    I think I read that as well, but decided against it because the literature wasn't convincing enough (i.e., hearsay on forum posts), and I wasn't thrilled with ingesting, and possibly becoming dependent on so many substances.
    - metamemetics 17y ago
      Choline is a natural compound, you can get it by eating eggs. Most people take it as a supplement the same time with piracetam, you can buy them combined as well. It's definitely discussed in research as well as forums: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7301036 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7301036 "The results of these studies demonstrate that the effects of combining choline and piracetam are quite different than those obtained with either drug alone"
      - itistoday 17y ago
        Thanks for the pubmed link, didn't see that. As far as choline goes, I eat an egg every day, and get my vitamins and minerals from fresh fruits, veggies and legumes. Just as you can obtain Vitamin-C or choline from a supplement, so too can you obtain them from natural sources. From what I understand of nutrition, the natural sources deliver the same nutrients in ways that our bodies can metabolize better. I'm open to trying piracetam again, but it just doesn't seem all that significant to justify even the extra cost of buying it (and the supplements) and becoming dependent on it. If someone here actually does think it's worth it, I'd be very interested in hearing from you, provided you don't own a nootropics business.
        gwern 17y ago
        One egg isn't going to do it. One egg gets you <200mg of choline, if I remember my research right, while you need more like >1000mg/1g to really see piracetam's effects. My DNB scores improved more with piracetam+choline than just piracetam: http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/thread/4f52e50ef2c0e64/b867b21b76be7895 http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/...
- stretchwithme 17y ago
  Fish oil helps my mood too. You may want to be make sure that the fish oil is molecularly distilled to minimize your exposure to mercury and PCBs.
  - itistoday 17y ago
    Yes, very good point, the brand I get does do that (Nature Made Liquid Softgels Odorless 1200mg).
    - rsheridan6 17y ago
      Or maybe not... http://thestockmasters.com/Fish-Oil-Supplements-PCB-03032010 http://thestockmasters.com/Fish-Oil-Supplements-PCB-03032010
      - itistoday 17y ago
        Thanks for the link! I'd certainly believe it. The amount of toxins man has put into the ocean is mind-boggling, so it's not a surprise if, even though they say on the damn bottle that they filter PCBs, that they're still there. Edit: However, it looks like the one mentioned in the article is not the same one I use. The one in the article is Cod Liver oil. Still, that's no reason to assume the other one is safe, as this is quite a global problem.
        rsheridan6 17y ago
        Take a second look - it says Nature Made cod liver oil and odorless fish oil. If only they said which ones DON'T have pcbs.
- lsb 17y ago
  To make fish oil, you need fish that are low enough in the food chain to not have many PCBs. Fish oil is usually made from the menhaden fish (aka the alewife fish), which used to be plentiful all around the Atlantic coastline of the US, feeding on algae. With all those fish turned into fish oil pellets, there are massive algae blooms, and the food chain's getting disrupted. See http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/03/23/menhaden/ http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/03/23/menhaden/ and http://motherjones.com/environment/2006/03/ill-take-menhaden http://motherjones.com/environment/2006/03/ill-take-menhaden
  - itistoday 17y ago
    Thanks for that! Any recommendations on alternatives? I find other sources of Omega3 (flax seed) to be not as good unfortunately...
    - vps2000 17y ago
      http://www.v-pure.com/ http://www.v-pure.com/ DHA and EPA are made by algae. You can extract it from the algae instead of the fish who eat the algae (or the fish who eat the fish who eat the algae...). There are other brands, too: http://www.pangeaveg.com/index.html?stocknumber=633 http://www.pangeaveg.com/index.html?stocknumber=633 "OMega-3-DHA contains DHA that is extracted from microalgae, which is grown in fermentation tanks derived from cultures of golden marine algae isolated from the Pacific Ocean." http://www.pangeaveg.com/index.html?stocknumber=642 http://www.pangeaveg.com/index.html?stocknumber=642
rms 17y ago
My roommate and I took it for about two months, also supplemented with choline. I didn't notice any improvement. My roommate noticed an improved ability to do mental math, but not enough of an improvement for it to be worth continuing to take.
metamemetics 17y ago
I tried piracetam, oxiracetam, and aniracetam 2-3 years ago and found them all to be vastly overrated. I knew a few journalism students that used to be heavy coffee drinkers that really liked piracetam+choline though. Piracetam is dirt cheap so you might as well see if you respond, but definitely stop taking it if you don't. A supplement that's great for overall health with lots of research is Alpha Lipoic Acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_lipoic_acid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_lipoic_acid). I find it helps me concentrate for longer periods of time and acts as a mild mood stabilizer.
- queensnake 17y ago
  There're also: Huperzine-A, Vinpocetine, Phosphatidyl Serine, Phosphatidyl Choline, Ginko, Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Taurine, Magnesium. There's a list of them in the book 'The Brain Trust Program', also Ray Kurzweil's 'Fantastic Voyage'.
  - gwern 17y ago
    I finished a bottle of Huperzine-A a little while ago. Did apparently zilch for me - no subjective effects, no side-effects, no apparent effects on DNB, etc. (It was from Source Naturals, which is apparently reputable enough that I discount the possible of counterfeits.) In comparison, I did notice effects from piracetam, eg., or fish oil (http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/thread/78e54d222e2c268b/44526d276379dded http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/...).
AngryParsley 17y ago
I didn't notice any improvement on piracetam. The only things that I'm sure change my mental state are caffeine and modafinil. I highly recommend modafinil (brand name Provigil). It helps me concentrate, especially if I didn't get enough sleep the night before.
- streblo 17y ago
  Is modafinil/Provigil available over the counter?
  - itistoday 17y ago
    It depends on whose counter you're referring to. :-p But generally, no.
  - metamemetics 17y ago
    Its precursor Adrafinil is not a controlled substance and easier to obtain over the internet. Same effects, different dosage requirements. Modafinil itself is schedule IV in the US and harder to obtain cough nubrain.com cough
    - itistoday 17y ago
      That site seems really insecure. Got this MySQL error at one point: QUERY = UPDATE ec_customer SET `noOrders`=noOrders + 1 WHERE customer_id = Their registration doesn't seem to be done through HTTPS. I'd be careful handing your CC info to them. Whoever wrote their software seems really incompetent.
  - oldgregg 17y ago
    No, but you can buy it cheap from India. If you google "modalert" -- the 4th link down, they have been around for years and will hook you up.
    - windsurfer 17y ago
      This doesn't sound sketchy at all.
silentbicycle 17y ago
I posted comments elsewhere in the thread. Briefly: Overrated, probably not worth the trouble, but at least pretty benign.

by RevRal 17y ago

I've been interested in piracetam for a while. Anybody with personal experience? Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam

jamesbritt 17y ago

I'm I tried Piracetam, Vasopressin, and Lucidril back in the '80s. I was trying all sorts of nootropics, both straight-up drugs and nutritional supplements back then. Piracetam may have worked, but at the end of my experiments I found that about the best thing was boosting phenylalanine to help with caffeine. Part of this may have been that getting a steady supply of many things (such as Piracetam) was both difficult and expensive in the USA.

itistoday 17y ago

Yes, I took it for several days and developed an annoying headache/feeling. It did not, at all, improve cognitive function. In my case it impaired it. YMMV of course. I've had far better luck with fish oil (Omega-3 supplements), taken every morning with earl grey tea. The fish oil helps me concentrate, while the tea releases caffeine more slowly than coffee does, preventing jitteriness and extending its duration.

Devilboy 17y ago
I've heard that the headache is due to a lack of choline, and that most people should be taking a choline supplement with their racetams.
- itistoday 17y ago
  I think I read that as well, but decided against it because the literature wasn't convincing enough (i.e., hearsay on forum posts), and I wasn't thrilled with ingesting, and possibly becoming dependent on so many substances.
  - metamemetics 17y ago
    Choline is a natural compound, you can get it by eating eggs. Most people take it as a supplement the same time with piracetam, you can buy them combined as well. It's definitely discussed in research as well as forums: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7301036 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7301036 "The results of these studies demonstrate that the effects of combining choline and piracetam are quite different than those obtained with either drug alone"
    - itistoday 17y ago
      Thanks for the pubmed link, didn't see that. As far as choline goes, I eat an egg every day, and get my vitamins and minerals from fresh fruits, veggies and legumes. Just as you can obtain Vitamin-C or choline from a supplement, so too can you obtain them from natural sources. From what I understand of nutrition, the natural sources deliver the same nutrients in ways that our bodies can metabolize better. I'm open to trying piracetam again, but it just doesn't seem all that significant to justify even the extra cost of buying it (and the supplements) and becoming dependent on it. If someone here actually does think it's worth it, I'd be very interested in hearing from you, provided you don't own a nootropics business.
      - gwern 17y ago
        One egg isn't going to do it. One egg gets you <200mg of choline, if I remember my research right, while you need more like >1000mg/1g to really see piracetam's effects. My DNB scores improved more with piracetam+choline than just piracetam: http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/thread/4f52e50ef2c0e64/b867b21b76be7895 http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/...
stretchwithme 17y ago
Fish oil helps my mood too. You may want to be make sure that the fish oil is molecularly distilled to minimize your exposure to mercury and PCBs.
- itistoday 17y ago
  Yes, very good point, the brand I get does do that (Nature Made Liquid Softgels Odorless 1200mg).
  - rsheridan6 17y ago
    Or maybe not... http://thestockmasters.com/Fish-Oil-Supplements-PCB-03032010 http://thestockmasters.com/Fish-Oil-Supplements-PCB-03032010
    - itistoday 17y ago
      Thanks for the link! I'd certainly believe it. The amount of toxins man has put into the ocean is mind-boggling, so it's not a surprise if, even though they say on the damn bottle that they filter PCBs, that they're still there. Edit: However, it looks like the one mentioned in the article is not the same one I use. The one in the article is Cod Liver oil. Still, that's no reason to assume the other one is safe, as this is quite a global problem.
      - rsheridan6 17y ago
        Take a second look - it says Nature Made cod liver oil and odorless fish oil. If only they said which ones DON'T have pcbs.
lsb 17y ago
To make fish oil, you need fish that are low enough in the food chain to not have many PCBs. Fish oil is usually made from the menhaden fish (aka the alewife fish), which used to be plentiful all around the Atlantic coastline of the US, feeding on algae. With all those fish turned into fish oil pellets, there are massive algae blooms, and the food chain's getting disrupted. See http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/03/23/menhaden/ http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/03/23/menhaden/ and http://motherjones.com/environment/2006/03/ill-take-menhaden http://motherjones.com/environment/2006/03/ill-take-menhaden
- itistoday 17y ago
  Thanks for that! Any recommendations on alternatives? I find other sources of Omega3 (flax seed) to be not as good unfortunately...
  - vps2000 17y ago
    http://www.v-pure.com/ http://www.v-pure.com/ DHA and EPA are made by algae. You can extract it from the algae instead of the fish who eat the algae (or the fish who eat the fish who eat the algae...). There are other brands, too: http://www.pangeaveg.com/index.html?stocknumber=633 http://www.pangeaveg.com/index.html?stocknumber=633 "OMega-3-DHA contains DHA that is extracted from microalgae, which is grown in fermentation tanks derived from cultures of golden marine algae isolated from the Pacific Ocean." http://www.pangeaveg.com/index.html?stocknumber=642 http://www.pangeaveg.com/index.html?stocknumber=642

rms 17y ago

My roommate and I took it for about two months, also supplemented with choline. I didn't notice any improvement. My roommate noticed an improved ability to do mental math, but not enough of an improvement for it to be worth continuing to take.

metamemetics 17y ago

I tried piracetam, oxiracetam, and aniracetam 2-3 years ago and found them all to be vastly overrated. I knew a few journalism students that used to be heavy coffee drinkers that really liked piracetam+choline though. Piracetam is dirt cheap so you might as well see if you respond, but definitely stop taking it if you don't. A supplement that's great for overall health with lots of research is Alpha Lipoic Acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_lipoic_acid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_lipoic_acid). I find it helps me concentrate for longer periods of time and acts as a mild mood stabilizer.

queensnake 17y ago
There're also: Huperzine-A, Vinpocetine, Phosphatidyl Serine, Phosphatidyl Choline, Ginko, Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Taurine, Magnesium. There's a list of them in the book 'The Brain Trust Program', also Ray Kurzweil's 'Fantastic Voyage'.
- gwern 17y ago
  I finished a bottle of Huperzine-A a little while ago. Did apparently zilch for me - no subjective effects, no side-effects, no apparent effects on DNB, etc. (It was from Source Naturals, which is apparently reputable enough that I discount the possible of counterfeits.) In comparison, I did notice effects from piracetam, eg., or fish oil (http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/thread/78e54d222e2c268b/44526d276379dded http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/...).

AngryParsley 17y ago

I didn't notice any improvement on piracetam. The only things that I'm sure change my mental state are caffeine and modafinil. I highly recommend modafinil (brand name Provigil). It helps me concentrate, especially if I didn't get enough sleep the night before.

streblo 17y ago
Is modafinil/Provigil available over the counter?
- itistoday 17y ago
  It depends on whose counter you're referring to. :-p But generally, no.
- metamemetics 17y ago
  Its precursor Adrafinil is not a controlled substance and easier to obtain over the internet. Same effects, different dosage requirements. Modafinil itself is schedule IV in the US and harder to obtain cough nubrain.com cough
  - itistoday 17y ago
    That site seems really insecure. Got this MySQL error at one point: QUERY = UPDATE ec_customer SET `noOrders`=noOrders + 1 WHERE customer_id = Their registration doesn't seem to be done through HTTPS. I'd be careful handing your CC info to them. Whoever wrote their software seems really incompetent.
- oldgregg 17y ago
  No, but you can buy it cheap from India. If you google "modalert" -- the 4th link down, they have been around for years and will hook you up.
  - windsurfer 17y ago
    This doesn't sound sketchy at all.

silentbicycle 17y ago

I posted comments elsewhere in the thread. Briefly: Overrated, probably not worth the trouble, but at least pretty benign.