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but still, not even america is a purelely capitalistic society,you do have some socialism in the blend.and the 20 or so western nations with higher standard of

but still, not even america is a purelely capitalistic society,you do have some socialism in the blend.and the 20 or so western nations with higher standard of living are even less capitalistic.so in the trade off between the two ideas i think america should move towards socialism.of course there are other nations that should do the opposite

gibsonf1 19y ago
It is the socialism in the blend of the US economy that drags us down as well as in other blended countries such as in Europe.
- brlittle 19y ago
  Please cite your evidence for how we are being "dragged down," and please cite a purely capitalist society that rivals our own (or those of Western Europe). I'm willing to consider evidence, but not an unfounded assertion like this.
  - gibsonf1 19y ago
    The examples are numerous - please look around. Simple examples would include the rent control policies in New York and San Francisco. The intention: provide low cost rent for tenants at the expense of landlords. The reality: because of the rent control, the ROI for entering the rental business declined dramatically. This caused less development of rental units and rapidly increasing rents for the scarcer supply left. The result of rent control: chronically higher rents for all but those lucky enough to already be renting and a chronic under-supply of rental units. Other classic examples are the minimum wage which increases unemployment, medicare/Medicaid which drives up the cost of health care for all, excessive taxation to pay for all of the entitlements which is a disincentive to business, etc.
    - brlittle 19y ago
      Despite which, the US economy remains one of the largest and most productive in the free world. Your examples do not support your assertion. According to both the IMF and the World Bank, the world's 10 largest economies in 2006 were, in order, the EU, the US, Japan, Germany, the PRC, the UK, France, Italy, Canada, Spain and Brazil. Very mixed economies, every one. I really don't see how this supports the idea that they're being "dragged down."
      - gibsonf1 19y ago
        Do you understand the point that the result of rent control is less rental units for renters, higher prices for renters, and less profit for landlords? How is that not dragging down what would otherwise be a sphere of creativity of landlords going out of their way to provide greater value to renters (to increase their profits) if the regulations were removed? Also, how does the fact that the US economy does well in comparison to other more socialist countries in any way show that removing the socialist controls we have now would not improve our economy even more?
        brlittle 19y ago
        Yes, I understand that. I maintain that it doesn't support your argument that our economy is being dragged down. You may argue that it's not growing at the rate you think it would, and I can respond by arguing that the resulting society isn't one I'd want to live in -- that's a different discussion. But the general trend of growth year over in real GDP (http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/Macroeconomics/Data/HistoricalRealGDPValues.xls http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/Macroeconomics/Data/HistoricalR...) is not evidence of being "dragged down." The trend is broadly up. Regarding your second point, this is a canard. The fact that the 10 largest, most successful economies in the world (in fact, most if not all of the top 20) incorporate elements of socialism (most to a much greater degree than the US) demonstrates that mixed economies can, and do, succeed. Your initial argument at least implies that a mixed economy is not a successful one. If I read that incorrectly, please tell me, because by most metrics, mixed economies are not only surviving, but prospering.
- bocajuniors 19y ago
  but it is a well established fact that the standard of living in norway, denmark, finland, germany... well exceeds that of america.do tou really think that any of these countries are more capitalistic than america?
  - gibsonf1 19y ago
    I'd be interested to see some evidence for this well established fact.
    - bocajuniors 19y ago
      http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/ http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/ the next one has you as number 3 in nort america: http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/social_sciences/report-68324.html http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/social_scienc... this one puts the happiness in relation to environmental impact: http://www.happyplanetindex.org/map.htm http://www.happyplanetindex.org/map.htm
      - yummyfajitas 19y ago
        Happiness research is nonsense when used in this way. People from different cultures often have different conceptions of happiness. There are also calibration effects: show person X someone else better off than him, and tell him that guy reported 8/10 (happiness units). Then he will never report higher than 7/10. This isn't jealosy, it's just not knowing what the units mean. Another reason to see why there is something off: compare Bhutan on your first link (#133) and on your second (#8, higher than Canada).

gibsonf1 19y ago

It is the socialism in the blend of the US economy that drags us down as well as in other blended countries such as in Europe.

brlittle 19y ago
Please cite your evidence for how we are being "dragged down," and please cite a purely capitalist society that rivals our own (or those of Western Europe). I'm willing to consider evidence, but not an unfounded assertion like this.
- gibsonf1 19y ago
  The examples are numerous - please look around. Simple examples would include the rent control policies in New York and San Francisco. The intention: provide low cost rent for tenants at the expense of landlords. The reality: because of the rent control, the ROI for entering the rental business declined dramatically. This caused less development of rental units and rapidly increasing rents for the scarcer supply left. The result of rent control: chronically higher rents for all but those lucky enough to already be renting and a chronic under-supply of rental units. Other classic examples are the minimum wage which increases unemployment, medicare/Medicaid which drives up the cost of health care for all, excessive taxation to pay for all of the entitlements which is a disincentive to business, etc.
  - brlittle 19y ago
    Despite which, the US economy remains one of the largest and most productive in the free world. Your examples do not support your assertion. According to both the IMF and the World Bank, the world's 10 largest economies in 2006 were, in order, the EU, the US, Japan, Germany, the PRC, the UK, France, Italy, Canada, Spain and Brazil. Very mixed economies, every one. I really don't see how this supports the idea that they're being "dragged down."
    - gibsonf1 19y ago
      Do you understand the point that the result of rent control is less rental units for renters, higher prices for renters, and less profit for landlords? How is that not dragging down what would otherwise be a sphere of creativity of landlords going out of their way to provide greater value to renters (to increase their profits) if the regulations were removed? Also, how does the fact that the US economy does well in comparison to other more socialist countries in any way show that removing the socialist controls we have now would not improve our economy even more?
      - brlittle 19y ago
        Yes, I understand that. I maintain that it doesn't support your argument that our economy is being dragged down. You may argue that it's not growing at the rate you think it would, and I can respond by arguing that the resulting society isn't one I'd want to live in -- that's a different discussion. But the general trend of growth year over in real GDP (http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/Macroeconomics/Data/HistoricalRealGDPValues.xls http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/Macroeconomics/Data/HistoricalR...) is not evidence of being "dragged down." The trend is broadly up. Regarding your second point, this is a canard. The fact that the 10 largest, most successful economies in the world (in fact, most if not all of the top 20) incorporate elements of socialism (most to a much greater degree than the US) demonstrates that mixed economies can, and do, succeed. Your initial argument at least implies that a mixed economy is not a successful one. If I read that incorrectly, please tell me, because by most metrics, mixed economies are not only surviving, but prospering.
bocajuniors 19y ago
but it is a well established fact that the standard of living in norway, denmark, finland, germany... well exceeds that of america.do tou really think that any of these countries are more capitalistic than america?
- gibsonf1 19y ago
  I'd be interested to see some evidence for this well established fact.
  - bocajuniors 19y ago
    http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/ http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/ the next one has you as number 3 in nort america: http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/social_sciences/report-68324.html http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/social_scienc... this one puts the happiness in relation to environmental impact: http://www.happyplanetindex.org/map.htm http://www.happyplanetindex.org/map.htm
    - yummyfajitas 19y ago
      Happiness research is nonsense when used in this way. People from different cultures often have different conceptions of happiness. There are also calibration effects: show person X someone else better off than him, and tell him that guy reported 8/10 (happiness units). Then he will never report higher than 7/10. This isn't jealosy, it's just not knowing what the units mean. Another reason to see why there is something off: compare Bhutan on your first link (#133) and on your second (#8, higher than Canada).