5 ms·

Okay. I can't spend so much time explaining the virtues of "freedom". I also can't spend time trying to reason with "rational" people who like all the post-mode

Okay. I can't spend so much time explaining the virtues of "freedom". I also can't spend time trying to reason with "rational" people who like all the post-modernists basically believe in narratives, and not truth (philosophically speaking). - My contention is not about speaking English, "rational" people (I speak English!). It is about how economically dominant a language is; in East Asia/Europe getting a good job without knowing the local language is extraordinarily difficult. Speaking English (without other awesome skills) often lands one a position teaching high schoolers. - This power/economic structure is inverted in formerly colonized African nations as noted by the Kenyan writer Ngũgĩ wa Thiong'o. He was kicked out for raising such questions (so much for Kenyan Independence). - It's very apparent that this is the case in India too. Why? - It doesn't look like one can get a Tech job at ISRO (imaginably also Flipkart) having a Engineering degree in one of the native languages. What appears to be Hindi is barely to be found on the menus on its front page. A "lingua franca" is one to which everyone makes a translation from the original, for the world to read. It appears that the original itself is in English, here! - This being the case, I'm not even sure if you can get a degree in anything useful in any of the native languages. - Punching in "India English" threw up the following in the first few results, http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/opinion/sunday/how-english-ruined-indian-literature.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/opinion/sunday/how-english... - There seems to be lots of chatter in the search results on an as yet unnamed invisible hand disenfranchising people linguistically (people are taught in English ??!). - According to Wiki, only 10% of India speaks English. This is the classic workings of a feudal - ironically a pre-enlightenment - state, if not one practicing outright apartheid. It's almost as if India stepped into medieval Europe's shoes where the rich sent their kids to Latin grammar schools; or Tsarist Russia where French was the langue de l'élite (atleast Tolstoy wrote in Russian as noted by the NyT article!). If you want to invalidate my understanding, either show one of the above to false, or show why it's alright by making statements about their benignity (vis a vis a linguistically diverse EU, for instance). Otherwise, please spare me the downvotes and the verbiage. I don't think such political HN threads help anyone (although, they do reveal colors).

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
gammaray9 10y ago
There are plenty of government and other jobs which would be hard to get without knowing at least one local language. If you really want a job in technology, English would the least of the qualifications you'd need to be concerned about. With a solid background in math/science and demonstrated drive any required linguistic skills would be bridged for you.
kartD 10y ago
Local language is required for government jobs (IAS, engineering in PSU etc.). In engineering companies such as Flipkart, inMobi etc. you will end up speaking local languages when you form your friend circle and if your team speaks a common language. Even if the job doesn't ask for it, you're going to have a tough time fitting in if you don't speak the common language (Hindi, Tamil, Kannada etc). And be logical, English will always be needed. Which company in the world would be able to deal with 28 official languages internally? Also, there are start-ups moving to address the local market (e-commerce in Tamil, Hindi etc. All of what you've said btw is mere opinion. None of what you say us objective fact. Speaking the language of your former colonizer doesn't mean the people lack self-respect nor does it have anything to do with any of the "virtues of freedom" as you've pointed out.
- ittekimasu 10y ago
  Uhh. I wish you could atleast understand this lingua franca you constantly speak of (see disclaimer above). If not please don't bring this moralizing non-sense. Narratives don't make for either logic or reason. I'm not even sure you understand philosophy or the epistemological meanings of the words you are so desperate to bolster these stupid narratives. See, the thing is, you don't invalidate any of what I said. - 90% of India's population does not speak English. This is not "mere opinion". - EU uses 24 official languages; companies work in the language of the state. East-Asian companies work and do engineering in their respective languages. Unless you claim Indian languages are somehow intrinsically "useless", your narrative is full of BS. - It's not about "speaking" as was mentioned earlier. It was obvious I was talking about technical/commercial usage. I'm glad it's required in the Govt; it appears this is only the case for low-level jobs. It looks like the country's laws etc. (apparently even the courts ?) function in English. Countries in East-Asia do engineering/business etc. in their own respective languages, some borrowing terms from English, and others (like CN) going out of their way to avoid them. I don't mean language usage in the Kitchen; I'm not even sure how this can be "economically useful". - You invalidate nothing written in the NyT article. Your "argument" is essentially one saying, "ah it's too much work to keep our own identities, so let's just adopt one of the old colonizer". What a pathetic country, and what a fall. Noam Chomsky notes somewhere the corruption these idiots in post-modernism have on the third world, where intellectuals are desperately needed. I can see what he meant.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

gammaray9 10y ago

There are plenty of government and other jobs which would be hard to get without knowing at least one local language. If you really want a job in technology, English would the least of the qualifications you'd need to be concerned about. With a solid background in math/science and demonstrated drive any required linguistic skills would be bridged for you.

kartD 10y ago

Local language is required for government jobs (IAS, engineering in PSU etc.). In engineering companies such as Flipkart, inMobi etc. you will end up speaking local languages when you form your friend circle and if your team speaks a common language. Even if the job doesn't ask for it, you're going to have a tough time fitting in if you don't speak the common language (Hindi, Tamil, Kannada etc). And be logical, English will always be needed. Which company in the world would be able to deal with 28 official languages internally? Also, there are start-ups moving to address the local market (e-commerce in Tamil, Hindi etc. All of what you've said btw is mere opinion. None of what you say us objective fact. Speaking the language of your former colonizer doesn't mean the people lack self-respect nor does it have anything to do with any of the "virtues of freedom" as you've pointed out.

ittekimasu 10y ago
Uhh. I wish you could atleast understand this lingua franca you constantly speak of (see disclaimer above). If not please don't bring this moralizing non-sense. Narratives don't make for either logic or reason. I'm not even sure you understand philosophy or the epistemological meanings of the words you are so desperate to bolster these stupid narratives. See, the thing is, you don't invalidate any of what I said. - 90% of India's population does not speak English. This is not "mere opinion". - EU uses 24 official languages; companies work in the language of the state. East-Asian companies work and do engineering in their respective languages. Unless you claim Indian languages are somehow intrinsically "useless", your narrative is full of BS. - It's not about "speaking" as was mentioned earlier. It was obvious I was talking about technical/commercial usage. I'm glad it's required in the Govt; it appears this is only the case for low-level jobs. It looks like the country's laws etc. (apparently even the courts ?) function in English. Countries in East-Asia do engineering/business etc. in their own respective languages, some borrowing terms from English, and others (like CN) going out of their way to avoid them. I don't mean language usage in the Kitchen; I'm not even sure how this can be "economically useful". - You invalidate nothing written in the NyT article. Your "argument" is essentially one saying, "ah it's too much work to keep our own identities, so let's just adopt one of the old colonizer". What a pathetic country, and what a fall. Noam Chomsky notes somewhere the corruption these idiots in post-modernism have on the third world, where intellectuals are desperately needed. I can see what he meant.