5 ms·

Time to sell and leave. And if that is really the equity structure, make sure you re-negotiate that with the board before talking about leaving, as part of bein

by jwatte 10y ago

Time to sell and leave. And if that is really the equity structure, make sure you re-negotiate that with the board before talking about leaving, as part of being a C officer.

madaxe_again 10y ago
Can't sell except for the aforementioned £60. Not £60k, £60 - the nominal value of the shares. The only way I can leave and keep my equity is if I die. If I attempt to have that conversation in a board meeting they'll know what's up and will probably fire me - in which case no severance, not even the £60. There's a third party hnw investor who came in a few years ago who's gone from arms length to "where the fuck are you?!", and he sees me as a troublemaker as I do all the talking in board meetings (cofounder is taciturn), and set goals for hiring and growth that never happen as they're strangled in the crib. By staying silent he's kept himself pristine. So, tough decisions ahead. Do I write off a decade of my life and enter a tough job market with no savings to tide me over (nothing like having your entire value in equity, and a paltry salary (£30k - pay ourselves less than staff, don't do dividends, keep value in company - see above pointless pile of cash)), or do I continue, which will probably see me lose what little sanity I have left. Of course, there is an option as mentioned which keeps my family financially secure, but despite everything I don't particularly want to kill myself. It feels like a cop-out.
- beachstartup 10y ago
  oh, don't worry. you won't have to make any tough decisions. if you don't have vested equity that you keep when you leave, they're just going to fire you as soon as some real money shows up.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  Talk to a lawyer. How the hell did you end up with an equity share with net value to you of £60?
  - madaxe_again 10y ago
    Nominal value. Fair market would be several million. If I leave for any reason other than death I get the nominal value.
    - dredmorbius 10y ago
      Point remains that terms of yor departure are largely controlled by the firm, not you. Including making conditions so untenable your only rational option is to leave. Again, a solicitor should be able to give you more specific advice.
- frandroid 10y ago
  > he sees me as a troublemaker as I do all the talking in board meetings (cofounder is taciturn) Okay, you need to figure out who are your allies on your board. Which of the board members espouse the more aggressive profile that you wish to have? You need to approach them privately to discuss how to move the needle. Board meetings are where decisions are rubber-stamped; the real talking happens before the meeting, in one on one conversations. I mean at this point, you've got nothing to lose, right?
  - madaxe_again 10y ago
    Just the three of us. Those decisions are rubber stamped in boards - I put forth plans for growth, the investor director negotiates and approves, and then I fail to deliver - I see this as my own failing, despite the reason being things like cofounder dismissing a newly hired hiring manager while I'm on holiday because "we don't need to hire". That said if I sit in a board and point the finger, I'm the ass, not him - and it is after all me that has failed to deliver on my self-imposed initiatives, regardless of what I think the reason is. It can be argued that one can always try harder, but my will has been attrited by this over the years.
    - frandroid 10y ago
      > That said if I sit in a board and point the finger, I'm the ass, not him Really?
- ScottBurson 10y ago
  No amount of money is worth your sanity -- or your life. Sounds to me like you need to be spending all your spare time looking for another job. If you can get an offer, the decision will be much easier.
- ScottBurson 10y ago
  Thought about this some more. Reading between the lines a bit, so certainly, correct me if I get this wrong. But it looks like this: your investors are a bigger problem than your partner. First they write this deal where you don't really own your equity, then they don't let you pay yourselves like owners. Seems to me you're really getting screwed. Seriously: what are you getting out of this job besides experience? I'm afraid you're in the position of a wolf caught in a trap: you're going to have to chew your own leg off to get out. It'll hurt like all hell, but if you don't do it, you'll die.
  - ScottBurson 10y ago
    In fact, the more I think about this, the more fucked-up it seems. The investors have given you the illusion of owning part of this company, but it's a mirage. You have no way to benefit from that equity. You have no authority, you control no budget, you're paid a pittance, and the only way you can monetize your ostensible share of the company is by dying! You've been taken, and it doesn't sound like there's anything you can do about it (IANAL; maybe you should consult one, but I'm not optimistic they can do anything for you). As I said: time to chew your leg off and get free.

by jwatte 10y ago

Time to sell and leave. And if that is really the equity structure, make sure you re-negotiate that with the board before talking about leaving, as part of being a C officer.

madaxe_again 10y ago

Can't sell except for the aforementioned £60. Not £60k, £60 - the nominal value of the shares. The only way I can leave and keep my equity is if I die. If I attempt to have that conversation in a board meeting they'll know what's up and will probably fire me - in which case no severance, not even the £60. There's a third party hnw investor who came in a few years ago who's gone from arms length to "where the fuck are you?!", and he sees me as a troublemaker as I do all the talking in board meetings (cofounder is taciturn), and set goals for hiring and growth that never happen as they're strangled in the crib. By staying silent he's kept himself pristine. So, tough decisions ahead. Do I write off a decade of my life and enter a tough job market with no savings to tide me over (nothing like having your entire value in equity, and a paltry salary (£30k - pay ourselves less than staff, don't do dividends, keep value in company - see above pointless pile of cash)), or do I continue, which will probably see me lose what little sanity I have left. Of course, there is an option as mentioned which keeps my family financially secure, but despite everything I don't particularly want to kill myself. It feels like a cop-out.

beachstartup 10y ago
oh, don't worry. you won't have to make any tough decisions. if you don't have vested equity that you keep when you leave, they're just going to fire you as soon as some real money shows up.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
dredmorbius 10y ago
Talk to a lawyer. How the hell did you end up with an equity share with net value to you of £60?
- madaxe_again 10y ago
  Nominal value. Fair market would be several million. If I leave for any reason other than death I get the nominal value.
  - dredmorbius 10y ago
    Point remains that terms of yor departure are largely controlled by the firm, not you. Including making conditions so untenable your only rational option is to leave. Again, a solicitor should be able to give you more specific advice.
frandroid 10y ago
> he sees me as a troublemaker as I do all the talking in board meetings (cofounder is taciturn) Okay, you need to figure out who are your allies on your board. Which of the board members espouse the more aggressive profile that you wish to have? You need to approach them privately to discuss how to move the needle. Board meetings are where decisions are rubber-stamped; the real talking happens before the meeting, in one on one conversations. I mean at this point, you've got nothing to lose, right?
- madaxe_again 10y ago
  Just the three of us. Those decisions are rubber stamped in boards - I put forth plans for growth, the investor director negotiates and approves, and then I fail to deliver - I see this as my own failing, despite the reason being things like cofounder dismissing a newly hired hiring manager while I'm on holiday because "we don't need to hire". That said if I sit in a board and point the finger, I'm the ass, not him - and it is after all me that has failed to deliver on my self-imposed initiatives, regardless of what I think the reason is. It can be argued that one can always try harder, but my will has been attrited by this over the years.
  - frandroid 10y ago
    > That said if I sit in a board and point the finger, I'm the ass, not him Really?
ScottBurson 10y ago
No amount of money is worth your sanity -- or your life. Sounds to me like you need to be spending all your spare time looking for another job. If you can get an offer, the decision will be much easier.
ScottBurson 10y ago
Thought about this some more. Reading between the lines a bit, so certainly, correct me if I get this wrong. But it looks like this: your investors are a bigger problem than your partner. First they write this deal where you don't really own your equity, then they don't let you pay yourselves like owners. Seems to me you're really getting screwed. Seriously: what are you getting out of this job besides experience? I'm afraid you're in the position of a wolf caught in a trap: you're going to have to chew your own leg off to get out. It'll hurt like all hell, but if you don't do it, you'll die.
- ScottBurson 10y ago
  In fact, the more I think about this, the more fucked-up it seems. The investors have given you the illusion of owning part of this company, but it's a mirage. You have no way to benefit from that equity. You have no authority, you control no budget, you're paid a pittance, and the only way you can monetize your ostensible share of the company is by dying! You've been taken, and it doesn't sound like there's anything you can do about it (IANAL; maybe you should consult one, but I'm not optimistic they can do anything for you). As I said: time to chew your leg off and get free.