5 ms·

Looking at this disaster, I have to wonder why most people regard "preppers" as crazy.

by daxorid 10y ago

johansch 10y ago
It takes a long time to wreck a country this badly - particularly when it has desirable natural resources. Venezuela didn't wake up last year and decided it wanted a particularly messed up form of socialism. This started much longer ago.. (I'll hijack my own comment: socialism != social democracy, as practiced by a few northern European countries.)
astrodust 10y ago
You can be prepped up the wazoo and if a Venezuela goes down in your backyard what are you going to do? Hide out in your basement and eat tinned tuna? The best "preparation" is looking ahead and living in a place that isn't about to go to shit. Having a plane ticket and a passport is infinitely more valuable than a bucket of bullets and a gun.
- internaut 10y ago
  The majority of people wait for things to blow over because that normally works. In my country half the population starved to death because they were trapped. You have to understand that most modern famines are political, not economic in origin. That is why having food insurance is sensible in many countries. Humanitarian assistance (assuming it's not a global event) won't reach you if it is intersected by politics.
  - astrodust 10y ago
    Argentina is a good example of the extended misery you'll experience when your whole economy implodes and having a bunker you can huddle in isn't going to help at all. You'll have to go out and trade, eventually, for supplies. Rwanda is another example of what happens when The Shit Hits The Fan where unless your bunker is invisible or utterly impregnable you're not going to survive for long. When word gets out about a huge stash of weapons and food guess who's first on the hit-list of an angry mob? Does being a prepper save you from an ISIS-like take-over of your town? What about when the Russians role in and assume control like they've done in Georgia and Ukraine and you're now living in a whole different environment? Anyone who hoards food and bullets is thinking that when society collapses it will be a little bit of chaos and then they can go back outdoors and carry on. I'd challenge anyone to show when such a thing has happened in history.
    - internaut 10y ago
      I don't disagree! Maybe you were talking to a super-prepper. However to play Devil's Advocate I expect you could survive Argentina/Rwanda/Georgia/Ukraine with sufficient preparation e.g. growing food underground. It just takes an ungodly amount of money to make it work. > I'd challenge anyone to show when such a thing has happened in history. That's the interesting problem because I'd say (let's call it) 'cannibal holocaust' does happen with some frequency on a historical scale. It happened in my country and Russia more recently. It's rare but it does happen. The key element I think isn't so much resources as secrecy of preparations. With sufficient resources and thought you should be able to hole up for the rest of your life. Whether you'd want to is another issue! You have to remember that the people who do go fully off the grid aren't all that likely to advertise themselves. I'm thinking they will mostly be dissidents or the military (for deadman's switches, secret bioweapon programs and the like). So your appeal for challengers might come up empty for reasons other than non-existence. People who do this are always going to be pretty extreme. Here's one example: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/for-40-years-this-russian-family-was-cut-off-from-all-human-contact-unaware-of-world-war-ii-7354256/ http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/for-40-years-this-russ... I wouldn't say they were prepared with bullets and MREs per se but they certainly got off the grid. Also it is an interesting story. Finally I offer you an example of (intellectual) survival from ancient times in my own country. The majority of Greek texts you've heard of used to be stored in a small island off the Irish coast, protected against invaders by monks and most likely extreme isolation. If the Carolingian empire hadn't copied them from the monks you'd know next to nothing about the most major figures and events in world history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Greek_Classics#Early_Middle_Ages_in_the_Western_Provinces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Greek_Clas... When the Roman empire fell, knowledge of it and its predecessors was really in danger of being lost, despite what modern day hipster hun-apologists will tell you. From literacy to ... not-literacy. Without that backup beyond the furthest corner of the Empire, we'd know nothing about major figures like Seneca and Cicero. Kenneth Clark did an excellent documentary on the subject if you're interested. The episode is: Civilisation (1969) Episode 1 "The Skin of Our Teeth", from 13:35. I don't know if you're familiar with Neal Stephenson's Anathem but I imagine he got a lot of inspiration from this.
huherto 10y ago
It doesn't happen overnight. It is a slow and sustained process.
oh_sigh 10y ago
Because it depends on context.
internaut 10y ago
I agree, keeping 'food insurance' is far from crazy. You can buy MREs that last five to ten years. They won't solve all problems but they will certainly give you time to react appropriately e.g. escaping an area or growing food for the following year. Does anybody remember James Burke's Connections? The very first episode on how to live in a global downturn?
- _delirium 10y ago
  I agree, but that doesn't really require being part of the whole "prepper" subculture, which seems to focus more on scenarios where you're surviving a complete breakdown of society for decades in a bunker. In countries where infrastructure has historically been prone to interruptions, it's fairly common for people to store a good amount of preserved food, but they aren't seen as preppers, just people with a storehouse (which is basically an oversized pantry). My Greek grandparents always had a fairly large supply of food, for example. I do think many Americans are too far to the unprepared extreme, where a two-day interruption of normal services caused by e.g. a tropical storm sends everyone panicking, because they in some cases literally don't even have one day's worth of food in their house.
  - internaut 10y ago
    Yeah I think that Hollywood has done a number on some people. Surviving isn't that glamorous in real life. I think for most people having 1 to 3 months of food is ample but if you're in a political troublespot you should triple or quintuple that. It's all about using your wits while not going over the top.
- ersii 10y ago
  > Does anybody remember James Burke's Connections? The very first episode on how to live in a global downturn? If you don't remember it or want to see it again, look here [1] with the HN discussion here [2]. [1] https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Series%3A+Connections+%281978%29%22 https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Series%3A+... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11075430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11075430 Edit: Changed [1] to the current link, old link that [2] refers to doesn't work

Looking at this disaster, I have to wonder why most people regard "preppers" as crazy.

by daxorid 10y ago

Looking at this disaster, I have to wonder why most people regard "preppers" as crazy.

It takes a long time to wreck a country this badly - particularly when it has desirable natural resources. Venezuela didn't wake up last year and decided it wanted a particularly messed up form of socialism. This started much longer ago.. (I'll hijack my own comment: socialism != social democracy, as practiced by a few northern European countries.)

astrodust 10y ago

You can be prepped up the wazoo and if a Venezuela goes down in your backyard what are you going to do? Hide out in your basement and eat tinned tuna? The best "preparation" is looking ahead and living in a place that isn't about to go to shit. Having a plane ticket and a passport is infinitely more valuable than a bucket of bullets and a gun.

internaut 10y ago
The majority of people wait for things to blow over because that normally works. In my country half the population starved to death because they were trapped. You have to understand that most modern famines are political, not economic in origin. That is why having food insurance is sensible in many countries. Humanitarian assistance (assuming it's not a global event) won't reach you if it is intersected by politics.
- astrodust 10y ago
  Argentina is a good example of the extended misery you'll experience when your whole economy implodes and having a bunker you can huddle in isn't going to help at all. You'll have to go out and trade, eventually, for supplies. Rwanda is another example of what happens when The Shit Hits The Fan where unless your bunker is invisible or utterly impregnable you're not going to survive for long. When word gets out about a huge stash of weapons and food guess who's first on the hit-list of an angry mob? Does being a prepper save you from an ISIS-like take-over of your town? What about when the Russians role in and assume control like they've done in Georgia and Ukraine and you're now living in a whole different environment? Anyone who hoards food and bullets is thinking that when society collapses it will be a little bit of chaos and then they can go back outdoors and carry on. I'd challenge anyone to show when such a thing has happened in history.
  - internaut 10y ago
    I don't disagree! Maybe you were talking to a super-prepper. However to play Devil's Advocate I expect you could survive Argentina/Rwanda/Georgia/Ukraine with sufficient preparation e.g. growing food underground. It just takes an ungodly amount of money to make it work. > I'd challenge anyone to show when such a thing has happened in history. That's the interesting problem because I'd say (let's call it) 'cannibal holocaust' does happen with some frequency on a historical scale. It happened in my country and Russia more recently. It's rare but it does happen. The key element I think isn't so much resources as secrecy of preparations. With sufficient resources and thought you should be able to hole up for the rest of your life. Whether you'd want to is another issue! You have to remember that the people who do go fully off the grid aren't all that likely to advertise themselves. I'm thinking they will mostly be dissidents or the military (for deadman's switches, secret bioweapon programs and the like). So your appeal for challengers might come up empty for reasons other than non-existence. People who do this are always going to be pretty extreme. Here's one example: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/for-40-years-this-russian-family-was-cut-off-from-all-human-contact-unaware-of-world-war-ii-7354256/ http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/for-40-years-this-russ... I wouldn't say they were prepared with bullets and MREs per se but they certainly got off the grid. Also it is an interesting story. Finally I offer you an example of (intellectual) survival from ancient times in my own country. The majority of Greek texts you've heard of used to be stored in a small island off the Irish coast, protected against invaders by monks and most likely extreme isolation. If the Carolingian empire hadn't copied them from the monks you'd know next to nothing about the most major figures and events in world history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Greek_Classics#Early_Middle_Ages_in_the_Western_Provinces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Greek_Clas... When the Roman empire fell, knowledge of it and its predecessors was really in danger of being lost, despite what modern day hipster hun-apologists will tell you. From literacy to ... not-literacy. Without that backup beyond the furthest corner of the Empire, we'd know nothing about major figures like Seneca and Cicero. Kenneth Clark did an excellent documentary on the subject if you're interested. The episode is: Civilisation (1969) Episode 1 "The Skin of Our Teeth", from 13:35. I don't know if you're familiar with Neal Stephenson's Anathem but I imagine he got a lot of inspiration from this.

huherto 10y ago

It doesn't happen overnight. It is a slow and sustained process.

oh_sigh 10y ago

Because it depends on context.

internaut 10y ago

I agree, keeping 'food insurance' is far from crazy. You can buy MREs that last five to ten years. They won't solve all problems but they will certainly give you time to react appropriately e.g. escaping an area or growing food for the following year. Does anybody remember James Burke's Connections? The very first episode on how to live in a global downturn?

_delirium 10y ago
I agree, but that doesn't really require being part of the whole "prepper" subculture, which seems to focus more on scenarios where you're surviving a complete breakdown of society for decades in a bunker. In countries where infrastructure has historically been prone to interruptions, it's fairly common for people to store a good amount of preserved food, but they aren't seen as preppers, just people with a storehouse (which is basically an oversized pantry). My Greek grandparents always had a fairly large supply of food, for example. I do think many Americans are too far to the unprepared extreme, where a two-day interruption of normal services caused by e.g. a tropical storm sends everyone panicking, because they in some cases literally don't even have one day's worth of food in their house.
- internaut 10y ago
  Yeah I think that Hollywood has done a number on some people. Surviving isn't that glamorous in real life. I think for most people having 1 to 3 months of food is ample but if you're in a political troublespot you should triple or quintuple that. It's all about using your wits while not going over the top.
ersii 10y ago
> Does anybody remember James Burke's Connections? The very first episode on how to live in a global downturn? If you don't remember it or want to see it again, look here [1] with the HN discussion here [2]. [1] https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Series%3A+Connections+%281978%29%22 https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Series%3A+... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11075430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11075430 Edit: Changed [1] to the current link, old link that [2] refers to doesn't work