4 ms·

You say "Trump has done really well in business", but has he? No one knows his actual net worth, and numerous undertakings of his have been abject failures. W

You say "Trump has done really well in business", but has he? No one knows his actual net worth, and numerous undertakings of his have been abject failures. Without his father's money, it's hard to see how Trump would be anything today.

leesalminen 10y ago
Isn't that an ad hominem attack? https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
abfan1127 10y ago
I had heard on NPR that his wealth would have performed better in the S&P than his business dealings... This isn't the same source, but it has a similar message: http://www.moneytalksnews.com/why-youre-probably-better-investing-than-donald-trump/ http://www.moneytalksnews.com/why-youre-probably-better-inve...
- delazeur 10y ago
  Paris Hilton has also outperformed Trump's returns [1]. Granted, this story has mostly been reported by second- and third-tier outlets, but would anyone take Hilton seriously as a presidential candidate based on her business record? [1] http://thefederalist.com/2015/12/10/paris-hilton-is-better-at-business-than-donald-trump-is/ http://thefederalist.com/2015/12/10/paris-hilton-is-better-a...
zxcvvcxz 10y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization What he created and grew is undeniably better than where he started, even with loans from his father. I believe he has a few misses like selling steaks, water, and maybe his university wasn't great, but jeez, a handful of failed ventures out of 515 subsidiaries? This is actually his biggest strength in my eyes. Organizational management. Making things move, making things profitable, getting the right people into position to execute.
- cthalupa 10y ago
  >What he created and grew is undeniably better than where he started, even with loans from his father. The question is: What could have created without those loans? Without the connections from his father? If it's true that he would have more material wealth if he had just invested that money in an index fund, I don't know that we can say he's a particularly great businessman. If we compare him to people that have created much more with much less, it's certainly difficult to argue he's in the same class as they are. How many people in America that run small to medium sized businesses would have been able to do as well as he did if given the same resources? This is something that's hard to come to any sort of scientific answer on, but I imagine the number would be quite high, and I don't think that they would all be qualified to be president.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - zxcvvcxz 10y ago
    You're missing the point. As a voter I'm comparing him and his managerial expertise with Clinton. I weigh the ability to manage an organization very high when it comes to who I'd want running the country (which in a lot of ways functions like a large organization). Clinton has not managed anything of note, except an incredibly wasteful charity: https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-Clinton-Foundation-money-goes-to-real-and-actual-charities-that-are-not-controlled-by-the-Clintons https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-Clinton-Foundation-...
    - nitrogen 10y ago
      I am not particularly a fan of Hillary, but Secretary of State is definitely a high-stakes managerial position.
      - zxcvvcxz 10y ago
        And how well did she do at it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack > With all due respect, the fact is, we had four dead Americans! Was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night and decided they'd go kill some Americans?! What difference, at this point, does it make?! Here is a taste about what the FBI has to say about Clinton's emails: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBLrEkPhMCQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBLrEkPhMCQ People needlessly died on her watch, she let classified materials get out, and she tried covering up for it too.

leesalminen 10y ago

Isn't that an ad hominem attack? https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

abfan1127 10y ago

I had heard on NPR that his wealth would have performed better in the S&P than his business dealings... This isn't the same source, but it has a similar message: http://www.moneytalksnews.com/why-youre-probably-better-investing-than-donald-trump/ http://www.moneytalksnews.com/why-youre-probably-better-inve...

delazeur 10y ago
Paris Hilton has also outperformed Trump's returns [1]. Granted, this story has mostly been reported by second- and third-tier outlets, but would anyone take Hilton seriously as a presidential candidate based on her business record? [1] http://thefederalist.com/2015/12/10/paris-hilton-is-better-at-business-than-donald-trump-is/ http://thefederalist.com/2015/12/10/paris-hilton-is-better-a...

zxcvvcxz 10y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization What he created and grew is undeniably better than where he started, even with loans from his father. I believe he has a few misses like selling steaks, water, and maybe his university wasn't great, but jeez, a handful of failed ventures out of 515 subsidiaries? This is actually his biggest strength in my eyes. Organizational management. Making things move, making things profitable, getting the right people into position to execute.

cthalupa 10y ago
>What he created and grew is undeniably better than where he started, even with loans from his father. The question is: What could have created without those loans? Without the connections from his father? If it's true that he would have more material wealth if he had just invested that money in an index fund, I don't know that we can say he's a particularly great businessman. If we compare him to people that have created much more with much less, it's certainly difficult to argue he's in the same class as they are. How many people in America that run small to medium sized businesses would have been able to do as well as he did if given the same resources? This is something that's hard to come to any sort of scientific answer on, but I imagine the number would be quite high, and I don't think that they would all be qualified to be president.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- zxcvvcxz 10y ago
  You're missing the point. As a voter I'm comparing him and his managerial expertise with Clinton. I weigh the ability to manage an organization very high when it comes to who I'd want running the country (which in a lot of ways functions like a large organization). Clinton has not managed anything of note, except an incredibly wasteful charity: https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-Clinton-Foundation-money-goes-to-real-and-actual-charities-that-are-not-controlled-by-the-Clintons https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-Clinton-Foundation-...
  - nitrogen 10y ago
    I am not particularly a fan of Hillary, but Secretary of State is definitely a high-stakes managerial position.
    - zxcvvcxz 10y ago
      And how well did she do at it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack > With all due respect, the fact is, we had four dead Americans! Was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night and decided they'd go kill some Americans?! What difference, at this point, does it make?! Here is a taste about what the FBI has to say about Clinton's emails: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBLrEkPhMCQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBLrEkPhMCQ People needlessly died on her watch, she let classified materials get out, and she tried covering up for it too.