6 ms·

I cant recall a single example of a functional democracy in a socialist government. Seems to be mutually exclusive outputs.

eudox 10y ago
Venezuela elected Chavez in at least three internationally verified and observed elections (1998, 2000, 2006).
- randiantech 10y ago
  Having democrat elections is not the same of having a functional democracy.
  - lightlyused 10y ago
    Exactly what I pointed out, although it seems some didn't like my comment.
- huherto 10y ago
  He was elected democratically, but then he behaved like a dictator. He was not aware of his ignorance in economics, and he had to support of the people. The results were disastrous.
  - eudox 10y ago
    >He was elected democratically, but then he behaved like a dictator. He was elected democratically to behave like a dictator. Most dictatorships advertise quite clearly what they intend to do.
CamonZ 10y ago
@eudox. Rigged elections.
- eudox 10y ago
  Firstly, that's not how replies work. Secondly, no, they were not rigged elections. A couple of links: https://www.cartercenter.org/documents/297.pdf https://www.cartercenter.org/documents/297.pdf http://eeas.europa.eu/eueom/missions/2006/venezuela/index_en.htm http://eeas.europa.eu/eueom/missions/2006/venezuela/index_en... Of course democracy is not incompatible with Communism. How could it be when the people are enthusiastic supporters of Communism?
  - CamonZ 10y ago
    There have been countless statistical anomalies on all elections since 2004; like voting centers with 0 abstention and 100% votes pro-government on extremely remote locations without oversight from the opposition. But please, continue lecturing me on my country's electoral and voting system.
    - eudox 10y ago
      >since 2004 That's after two Chavez elections. Then the people were voting for Communism well before the elections were rigged in an observable way
      - CamonZ 10y ago
        >The people were voting for Communism Clearly, the world has always been filled with idiots full of resentment towards people that made better decisions and became more successful.
        eudox 10y ago
        So there you go. That's how Communism is compatible with democracy. It burns the same fuel: the promise of mass political power.
- randiantech 10y ago
  "Of course democracy is not incompatible with Communism. How could it be when the people are enthusiastic supporters of Communism?" There were/are enthusiastic supporters for some of the worst causes.[1] Also, historically, comunism did not support occidental democracy systems.[2] [1]http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/new-isis-islamic-state-daesh-amaq-news-pictures-videos-to-the-knights-of-the-khilafah-in-bengal-caliphate-holey-artisan-bakery-cafe-terrorist-attack-full-uncensored-youtube-video/ http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/new-isis-islamic-state-daesh-a... [2] https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1918/xx/principles.htm https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1918/xx/principles....
markeroon 10y ago
Uhhh... how about almost every Nordic country?
- randiantech 10y ago
  Then probably we are not referring to the same thing when we talk about socialism.
  - astrodust 10y ago
    If you're using "socialism" as a bugaboo, probably not. It has a broad meaning, like "democracy", but it's not always a bad thing.
    - randiantech 10y ago
      I was referring socialism as a society where state does not allow private property (at least to a major extent), and violates individual human rights in favor of collective ones.
      - astrodust 10y ago
        You're confusing "socialism" with "communist". Socialist societies do not, as a rule, limit ownership of private property. Any that do are usually socialist and something else, like totalitarian or communist. Likewise a socialist state does not necessarily limit individual freedoms. Communist regimes have, but they're also totalitarian, so which philosophy is to blame is sometimes hard to pin down. Modern communist societies have also relaxed these restrictions significantly, though there were times when everything was forced communal.

eudox 10y ago

Venezuela elected Chavez in at least three internationally verified and observed elections (1998, 2000, 2006).

randiantech 10y ago
Having democrat elections is not the same of having a functional democracy.
- lightlyused 10y ago
  Exactly what I pointed out, although it seems some didn't like my comment.
huherto 10y ago
He was elected democratically, but then he behaved like a dictator. He was not aware of his ignorance in economics, and he had to support of the people. The results were disastrous.
- eudox 10y ago
  >He was elected democratically, but then he behaved like a dictator. He was elected democratically to behave like a dictator. Most dictatorships advertise quite clearly what they intend to do.

CamonZ 10y ago

@eudox. Rigged elections.

eudox 10y ago
Firstly, that's not how replies work. Secondly, no, they were not rigged elections. A couple of links: https://www.cartercenter.org/documents/297.pdf https://www.cartercenter.org/documents/297.pdf http://eeas.europa.eu/eueom/missions/2006/venezuela/index_en.htm http://eeas.europa.eu/eueom/missions/2006/venezuela/index_en... Of course democracy is not incompatible with Communism. How could it be when the people are enthusiastic supporters of Communism?
- CamonZ 10y ago
  There have been countless statistical anomalies on all elections since 2004; like voting centers with 0 abstention and 100% votes pro-government on extremely remote locations without oversight from the opposition. But please, continue lecturing me on my country's electoral and voting system.
  - eudox 10y ago
    >since 2004 That's after two Chavez elections. Then the people were voting for Communism well before the elections were rigged in an observable way
    - CamonZ 10y ago
      >The people were voting for Communism Clearly, the world has always been filled with idiots full of resentment towards people that made better decisions and became more successful.
      - eudox 10y ago
        So there you go. That's how Communism is compatible with democracy. It burns the same fuel: the promise of mass political power.
randiantech 10y ago
"Of course democracy is not incompatible with Communism. How could it be when the people are enthusiastic supporters of Communism?" There were/are enthusiastic supporters for some of the worst causes.[1] Also, historically, comunism did not support occidental democracy systems.[2] [1]http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/new-isis-islamic-state-daesh-amaq-news-pictures-videos-to-the-knights-of-the-khilafah-in-bengal-caliphate-holey-artisan-bakery-cafe-terrorist-attack-full-uncensored-youtube-video/ http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/new-isis-islamic-state-daesh-a... [2] https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1918/xx/principles.htm https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1918/xx/principles....

markeroon 10y ago

Uhhh... how about almost every Nordic country?

randiantech 10y ago
Then probably we are not referring to the same thing when we talk about socialism.
- astrodust 10y ago
  If you're using "socialism" as a bugaboo, probably not. It has a broad meaning, like "democracy", but it's not always a bad thing.
  - randiantech 10y ago
    I was referring socialism as a society where state does not allow private property (at least to a major extent), and violates individual human rights in favor of collective ones.
    - astrodust 10y ago
      You're confusing "socialism" with "communist". Socialist societies do not, as a rule, limit ownership of private property. Any that do are usually socialist and something else, like totalitarian or communist. Likewise a socialist state does not necessarily limit individual freedoms. Communist regimes have, but they're also totalitarian, so which philosophy is to blame is sometimes hard to pin down. Modern communist societies have also relaxed these restrictions significantly, though there were times when everything was forced communal.