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I guess it depends where you live. In my part of the UK people were overwhelmingly in favour of leave. I wouldn't typically mention I was a remain voter as it

I guess it depends where you live. In my part of the UK people were overwhelmingly in favour of leave. I wouldn't typically mention I was a remain voter as it was near sure to get me a discussion. Very few claimed the immigration directly - t'was about jobs, or more precisely the lack of them, therefore immigration. A good part of the region is not yet out of the 2008 recession, and house price growth is a joke. When you relatively recently had a well paying job with which you supported your family, yet now you're not making ends meet in a temporary delivery driver fake-freelance job, as that's all you can get despite skills, it's hard to see much logic in the "dynamic globalized economy". Now then, I'd argue that for most in tht position, the social justice, work regulation and regional development funds of the EU would be something to heavily vote for. The EU, though, has always been appalling at making a case for itself - hence distant EU bureaucrats and other tropes. Sadly, Boris's bullshit of £350m to the NHS and evil EU immigrants taking your jobs touched sore nerves and lead to the leave votes. Now we get a government that looks like it will lurch heavily to the right, and as far as London and the tories are concerned, the regions can go f* themselves. Turkeys voting for Christmas perhaps, but I do undertand the reasons why, least round these parts. I'd say the root cause goes all the way back to Thatcher and the loss of local industry, from which many towns have still not recovered.

jamespo 10y ago
You can look more recently than that, the failed austerity experiment contributed to these conditions
- anexprogrammer 10y ago
  Both really. For places like Middlesborough or Burnley they're a shadow of their former 80s selves. Austerity there is just a case of rubbing salt into the still open wound.
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    Early in my career I regularly visited towns like Middlesborough and Burnley, installing IT systems. There was a lot of unskilled and semi-skilled work available at those businesses that has either been shipped out to China or automated away. Those jobs aren't coming back, whether we are in the EU or not.
    - monk_e_boy 10y ago
      This is it exactly. Staying (and therefore nothing changing) was a really bad option for millions of people. Brexit was change. And maybe, just maybe it would be a change for good. Staying and project fear did not offer hope.
      - mpweiher 10y ago
        To change the things that are controlled by the UK government, you need to vote for a different UK government. > Brexit was change "I don't like my car, therefore I am changing pants" Huh?
      - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
        I'm not sure, the left wants to offer more welfare, the right crappy minimum wage jobs and the populists offer pie in the sky. I don't think any of them have a real solution.
        monk_e_boy 10y ago
        There was a thing called [left-exit] that a lot of us voted for. There was also a good [green-exit] argument which made a lot of sense. Just because these are both almost hopeless...
      - tankenmate 10y ago
        And yet without a goal and a plan voting for Brexit is just as bad. Hope is not a strategy. Luck is not a factor. Fear is not an option. -- James Cameron
    - anexprogrammer 10y ago
Fifer82 10y ago
I am not sure what I am saying, but I believe that a lot of the people voting, do not have the intelligence to vote. I met a couple of neds in Spain recently on the day of the vote, and they were like "Take it back, init, take it back and be great". I was like "What does that mean though??? Take back what??". "Take it back! We just need to run ourselves". Despite almost an hours worth of discussion, they were passionate about something which was nothing of value. I would probably put a lot of money on 20% of the vote being people who pick up a newspaper, and copy what the editor says. This "lets be great again" rubbish was the common theme.
- madaxe_again 10y ago
  This is the nature of our democracy, however. One could argue that one has a duty to educate, but you cannot force knowledge and reason upon people who do not wish it. I saw much of the same on the brexit vote - one that stood out was someone i'd always thought was an intelligent man (he used to run a substantial investment bank), who I found screaming, froth-flecked, in my face about how I was a traitor for not voting for freedom, how I loved evil, how leaving the EU was a vote for freedom. He couldn't elaborate on anything, he could just shout louder. It doesn't matter to him even, he'll be dead soon. One of his sons is a us native with British citizenship working on an eu research grant in Scandinavia. So strong was his irrational hatred he voted to fuck his own son over. Oh, and this guy is your ivy league elite, as were many of the other codgers in the room with the same groundless hate, so there goes the argument of this piece. The trimp/brexit voters aren't disillusioned youth, aren't the left behind, they're just your usually older traditional values crowd. That all said, like it or lump it. You are in the same boat as these people, they are people, and they represent the majority of people. I've spent most of my life trying to be tolerant of incredible stupidity, and I don't know if I'll ever fully succeed, but all you can do is grit your teeth, and keep quiet. You won't change their minds with any rational discourse, only emotional.
  - guard-of-terra 10y ago
    "he voted to fuck his own son over" Now, that was both emotional and irrational.

jamespo 10y ago

You can look more recently than that, the failed austerity experiment contributed to these conditions

anexprogrammer 10y ago
Both really. For places like Middlesborough or Burnley they're a shadow of their former 80s selves. Austerity there is just a case of rubbing salt into the still open wound.
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  Early in my career I regularly visited towns like Middlesborough and Burnley, installing IT systems. There was a lot of unskilled and semi-skilled work available at those businesses that has either been shipped out to China or automated away. Those jobs aren't coming back, whether we are in the EU or not.
  - monk_e_boy 10y ago
    This is it exactly. Staying (and therefore nothing changing) was a really bad option for millions of people. Brexit was change. And maybe, just maybe it would be a change for good. Staying and project fear did not offer hope.
    - mpweiher 10y ago
      To change the things that are controlled by the UK government, you need to vote for a different UK government. > Brexit was change "I don't like my car, therefore I am changing pants" Huh?
    - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
      I'm not sure, the left wants to offer more welfare, the right crappy minimum wage jobs and the populists offer pie in the sky. I don't think any of them have a real solution.
      - monk_e_boy 10y ago
        There was a thing called [left-exit] that a lot of us voted for. There was also a good [green-exit] argument which made a lot of sense. Just because these are both almost hopeless...
    - tankenmate 10y ago
      And yet without a goal and a plan voting for Brexit is just as bad. Hope is not a strategy. Luck is not a factor. Fear is not an option. -- James Cameron
  - anexprogrammer 10y ago

Fifer82 10y ago

I am not sure what I am saying, but I believe that a lot of the people voting, do not have the intelligence to vote. I met a couple of neds in Spain recently on the day of the vote, and they were like "Take it back, init, take it back and be great". I was like "What does that mean though??? Take back what??". "Take it back! We just need to run ourselves". Despite almost an hours worth of discussion, they were passionate about something which was nothing of value. I would probably put a lot of money on 20% of the vote being people who pick up a newspaper, and copy what the editor says. This "lets be great again" rubbish was the common theme.

madaxe_again 10y ago
This is the nature of our democracy, however. One could argue that one has a duty to educate, but you cannot force knowledge and reason upon people who do not wish it. I saw much of the same on the brexit vote - one that stood out was someone i'd always thought was an intelligent man (he used to run a substantial investment bank), who I found screaming, froth-flecked, in my face about how I was a traitor for not voting for freedom, how I loved evil, how leaving the EU was a vote for freedom. He couldn't elaborate on anything, he could just shout louder. It doesn't matter to him even, he'll be dead soon. One of his sons is a us native with British citizenship working on an eu research grant in Scandinavia. So strong was his irrational hatred he voted to fuck his own son over. Oh, and this guy is your ivy league elite, as were many of the other codgers in the room with the same groundless hate, so there goes the argument of this piece. The trimp/brexit voters aren't disillusioned youth, aren't the left behind, they're just your usually older traditional values crowd. That all said, like it or lump it. You are in the same boat as these people, they are people, and they represent the majority of people. I've spent most of my life trying to be tolerant of incredible stupidity, and I don't know if I'll ever fully succeed, but all you can do is grit your teeth, and keep quiet. You won't change their minds with any rational discourse, only emotional.
- guard-of-terra 10y ago
  "he voted to fuck his own son over" Now, that was both emotional and irrational.