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I don't think the average banker has a greater desire for self-enrichment than say, the average lawyer or the average sales manager. And anyway, there's nothin

I don't think the average banker has a greater desire for self-enrichment than say, the average lawyer or the average sales manager. And anyway, there's nothing wrong with a certain amount of greediness in a capitalist system, this is what drives innovation and efficiency. The problem with banking has been that the system is broken. Unlike other companies, mismanaged banks cannot go bankrupt because they drag the entire system with them.

pyrale 10y ago
> And anyway, there's nothing wrong with a certain amount of greediness in a capitalist system, this is what drives innovation and efficiency. I wonder how many years will pass before people realize this mantra is an article of faith.
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  The one example of innovation mentioned in Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations came from a boy who wanted to go out and play with his friends. (His job was to activate the release valve on an early steam engine. He rigged up a string to do that so he could play. James Watt incorporated this into his design.) (Watt and Smith were contemporaries in Edinburgh. Not only that, but Smith arranged for Watt, who'd been driven from business by the blacksmith's union (the Hammermen), to have an appointment and facilities at the University of Edinburgh. I'm fairly convinced they shared drinks at the local pub and swapped war stories.)
- ricksplat 10y ago
  Ayn Rand's "Virtue of Selfishness" completely ignores, or fails to compare with it's vices.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  It's convenient for people to believe in it because it's a self-serving belief.
- mseebach 10y ago
  We're currently at 240 years, so I wouldn't hold my breath. > It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages. http://geolib.com/smith.adam/won1-02.html http://geolib.com/smith.adam/won1-02.html
  - icebraining 10y ago
    Greediness is not the same as simply regarding one's interest, though the line is subjective.
    - mseebach 10y ago
      The greed that people talk about when they say that greed is good (by way of Wall Street, the 1987 movie) is, though. Also, a great many uses of the word in (lazy) criticism of markets and capitalism is that too.
      - pyrale 10y ago
        > The greed that people talk about when they say that greed is good (by way of Wall Street, the 1987 movie) is, though. Thing is, you can't reduce the pursuit of self interest to accumulating wealth. Therefore, even if we accept the definition of greed as merely pursuing wealth, we misunderstand Smith's quote and fail to acknowledge many sources of creativity. By disproportionately rewarding greed and not other work incentives, we build a society for the few that are driven by it, at the expense of most, and ultimately, we cannot thrive.
SeanDav 10y ago
I was part of the banking system for many years - it is unbelievably greedy. There is no respect for individuals, other than how much money they can make. Concepts like loyalty and service have no meaning.
- misja111 10y ago
  I was not denying that the banking system is greedy, I am saying that it is not more greedy than certain other branches. I have been part of the banking system for quite a few years as well, and although there is some truth in what you are saying, I have experienced the same things elsewhere as well. For instance in certain IT consultancy firms.
ionised 10y ago
> Unlike other companies, mismanaged banks cannot go bankrupt because they drag the entire system with them. Of course they can, we just have to be willing to let them in order to see the fundamental flaws in the system as it is.

pyrale 10y ago

> And anyway, there's nothing wrong with a certain amount of greediness in a capitalist system, this is what drives innovation and efficiency. I wonder how many years will pass before people realize this mantra is an article of faith.

dredmorbius 10y ago
The one example of innovation mentioned in Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations came from a boy who wanted to go out and play with his friends. (His job was to activate the release valve on an early steam engine. He rigged up a string to do that so he could play. James Watt incorporated this into his design.) (Watt and Smith were contemporaries in Edinburgh. Not only that, but Smith arranged for Watt, who'd been driven from business by the blacksmith's union (the Hammermen), to have an appointment and facilities at the University of Edinburgh. I'm fairly convinced they shared drinks at the local pub and swapped war stories.)
ricksplat 10y ago
Ayn Rand's "Virtue of Selfishness" completely ignores, or fails to compare with it's vices.
TeMPOraL 10y ago
It's convenient for people to believe in it because it's a self-serving belief.
mseebach 10y ago
We're currently at 240 years, so I wouldn't hold my breath. > It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages. http://geolib.com/smith.adam/won1-02.html http://geolib.com/smith.adam/won1-02.html
- icebraining 10y ago
  Greediness is not the same as simply regarding one's interest, though the line is subjective.
  - mseebach 10y ago
    The greed that people talk about when they say that greed is good (by way of Wall Street, the 1987 movie) is, though. Also, a great many uses of the word in (lazy) criticism of markets and capitalism is that too.
    - pyrale 10y ago
      > The greed that people talk about when they say that greed is good (by way of Wall Street, the 1987 movie) is, though. Thing is, you can't reduce the pursuit of self interest to accumulating wealth. Therefore, even if we accept the definition of greed as merely pursuing wealth, we misunderstand Smith's quote and fail to acknowledge many sources of creativity. By disproportionately rewarding greed and not other work incentives, we build a society for the few that are driven by it, at the expense of most, and ultimately, we cannot thrive.

SeanDav 10y ago

I was part of the banking system for many years - it is unbelievably greedy. There is no respect for individuals, other than how much money they can make. Concepts like loyalty and service have no meaning.

misja111 10y ago
I was not denying that the banking system is greedy, I am saying that it is not more greedy than certain other branches. I have been part of the banking system for quite a few years as well, and although there is some truth in what you are saying, I have experienced the same things elsewhere as well. For instance in certain IT consultancy firms.

ionised 10y ago

> Unlike other companies, mismanaged banks cannot go bankrupt because they drag the entire system with them. Of course they can, we just have to be willing to let them in order to see the fundamental flaws in the system as it is.