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Quote from OA "Voters in large numbers have been rejecting much of the underlying logic behind a dynamic globalized economy that on paper seems to make the wor

Quote from OA "Voters in large numbers have been rejecting much of the underlying logic behind a dynamic globalized economy that on paper seems to make the world much richer." In the UK, we don't actually know why 17+ million chose to tick the leave box. My conversations with a handful of people who did vote leave suggest a range of reasons from immigration, through to 'loss of control'. Macroeconomic policy does not seem to figure prominently. The government of Mrs May is further to the right of that of Mr Cameron. Her published statement does mention a softer approach to social factors and a desire to spread the rewards around more evenly... https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/statement-from-the-new-prime-minister-theresa-may https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/statement-from-the-ne... ...we shall see how that actually goes over the next few years in terms of actual law (look out for 'red tape' discussions - your red tape may be my employment rights) and policy (look out for some systematic way to replace the EU grant system that has recycled tax income from London/South to North).

nugget 10y ago
Do you think millenials being priced out of London as it became a global money laundering hub had anything to do with it? That's what I hear from my friends there.
- jwblackwell 10y ago
  London largely voted remain so not really. However I think youth are rightly frustrated about London prices
  - flukus 10y ago
    40% of London voted to leave, that's enough to change the outcome. I don't think pretending there is a huge geographical divide is particularly helpful.
    - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
      If you ignore the protests of some regions how can you address their problems (real or perceived).
    - iaskwhy 10y ago
      It might not be helpful but it's not pretending, there was a huge geographical divide: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028 - Some councils in London, Edinburgh, some Belfast, voted ~75% remain; - Some eastern England ares voted ~25% remain.
    - CM30 10y ago
      There was a huge divide in London too. Places like Camden, Kensington and Barnet overwhelmingly voted remain. Other places like Havering, Barking and Dagenham and Bexley voted to leave. And some areas (like Newham) were extremely close as far as percentages go. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-eu-referendum-results-borough-by-borough-breakdown-of-brexit-poll-a3279731.html http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-eu-referendum... General rule seems to be that places with lots of university students or large businesses tended to vote remain and those with either deeply conservative populations or a lot of immigration tended to vote leave.
      - MagnumOpus 10y ago
        > General rule seems to be that places with lots of university students or large businesses tended to vote remain and those with either deeply conservative populations or a lot of immigration tended to vote leave Doesn't think that is true. Lewisham, Lambeth and Tower Hamlets are some of the places with the most immigrants and remain won in all of these places by obscenely large margins. Maybe votes were more along racial lines - White English (especially the older ones) voting to leave, but people with a more colourful Asian/Caribbean heritage voting to remain?
        CM30 10y ago
        Not quite. Have you seen the demographics for Barking and Dagenham? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Borough_of_Barking_and_Dagenham#Demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Borough_of_Barking_and_... It's actually been specifically mentioned in a BBC article on the same subject: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904 On the other hand, Havering is the least ethnically diverse area in London. Upminster has the lowest Simpson Index in the country. Maybe it's places with the highest and lowest amounts of diversity that voted leave and those in the middle that voted stay?
- s_kilk 10y ago
  Unlikely. If you look at the age breakdown of the vote, millenials and other assorted youngsters voted overwhelmingly for "Remain", while the older cohort voted for "Leave".
  - dingaling 10y ago
    > If you look at the age breakdown of the vote That's not the breakdown of the vote but of exit polls and other opt-in polling such as YouGov surveys. Both of which are biased towards those (1) likely to contribute and (2) not concerned about sharing how they voted. The actual demographic composition of the vote is unknown, it could be determined ( all UK ballot papers are linked to their voter ) but that would be unprecedented and probably bad for democracy.
    - majewsky 10y ago
      > (2) not concerned about sharing how they voted Are exit polls not anonymized in the UK? At the last federal election in Germany, I was asked to contribute in an exit poll, and they had their own voting booth and urn set up for that purpose next to the actual voting room. The ballot was mostly identical, except for additional checkboxes for age group and gender, which they wanted to break down in their analyses. So still reasonably anonymized.
      - dingaling 10y ago
        The exit poll for the EU referendum at my local voting station was conducted by a man with a tablet computer! I didn't stop to investigate the process, unfortunately.
        CM30 10y ago
        Haven't ever seen an exit poll round here. No one was trying to gage who voted for what near any of these polling stations. Guess it's more common in some areas than others.
    - aninhumer 10y ago
- keithpeter 10y ago
  If you look at a map showing the breakdown of referendum voting by district you will find that Scotland, London and University towns together with many larger cities voted to remain. Areas of the country that depend most heavily on EU grants (ESF/ERDF) voted to leave. Grant allocation is a reliable indicator of relative lack of investment/development. I don't live in London so I can't comment on conversations there.
- smikhanov 10y ago
  Becoming a global money laundering hub like London is a wet dream of every major city on this planet. Plus, as the commenter below mentions, London mostly voted remain.
  - throwaway13337 10y ago
    It may be the dream of owners of property in London but not those that rent there.
    - smikhanov 10y ago
      Well, keep in mind that for every million processed via, say, Credit Suisse in London, several thousand land up in Accenture (or other IT firm), several go to Deloitte (or other consultancy), some more go to Linklaters (or other law firm). Their employees get their salaries that allow then to support their families and then go drink coffee at Nero and eat sandwiches at Pret. Everyone in this chain -- from Credit Suisse via Accenture to Nero are employing people, growing and paying wages. Now you can go "those high-earning landlord scum" as much as you want, but nobody in their right mind would say that it's better to have a situation in, say, small towns in the Northeastern England where rent is spectacularly low — but so is employment.
    - simonh 10y ago
      If you work in London at all, you get trickle down from the financial services sector. People who work in finance drink in your coffee shop, eat in your restaurant, ride in your bus or taxi, buy things in your shop. Look at what happened in 2008. Finance caught a cold and the entire global economy including Britain fell flat on it's back. Brexit has the potential to do far more damage over a much longer period of time, but mostly just to Britain. The knock on effect across the country isn't going to be pretty. But hey, if the rest of Britain decides they'd rather like to have a long drawn out recession just in order to stick it to the bankers then fine.
      - ionised 10y ago
        And those same people leech off the public purse in order to bail themselves out of their greedy, malicious fuck ups that end up ruining economies and destroying lives.
- intoverflow2 10y ago
  We're being priced out of everywhere. Paying over the odds for a crappy semi that the boomers hoarded for profit surrounded by leave voters outside of London isn't appealing either. EU was pretty much our lifeline that we could move to somewhere much nicer and affordable in Europe once our careers have been established.
anexprogrammer 10y ago
I guess it depends where you live. In my part of the UK people were overwhelmingly in favour of leave. I wouldn't typically mention I was a remain voter as it was near sure to get me a discussion. Very few claimed the immigration directly - t'was about jobs, or more precisely the lack of them, therefore immigration. A good part of the region is not yet out of the 2008 recession, and house price growth is a joke. When you relatively recently had a well paying job with which you supported your family, yet now you're not making ends meet in a temporary delivery driver fake-freelance job, as that's all you can get despite skills, it's hard to see much logic in the "dynamic globalized economy". Now then, I'd argue that for most in tht position, the social justice, work regulation and regional development funds of the EU would be something to heavily vote for. The EU, though, has always been appalling at making a case for itself - hence distant EU bureaucrats and other tropes. Sadly, Boris's bullshit of £350m to the NHS and evil EU immigrants taking your jobs touched sore nerves and lead to the leave votes. Now we get a government that looks like it will lurch heavily to the right, and as far as London and the tories are concerned, the regions can go f* themselves. Turkeys voting for Christmas perhaps, but I do undertand the reasons why, least round these parts. I'd say the root cause goes all the way back to Thatcher and the loss of local industry, from which many towns have still not recovered.
- jamespo 10y ago
  You can look more recently than that, the failed austerity experiment contributed to these conditions
  - anexprogrammer 10y ago
    Both really. For places like Middlesborough or Burnley they're a shadow of their former 80s selves. Austerity there is just a case of rubbing salt into the still open wound.
    - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
      Early in my career I regularly visited towns like Middlesborough and Burnley, installing IT systems. There was a lot of unskilled and semi-skilled work available at those businesses that has either been shipped out to China or automated away. Those jobs aren't coming back, whether we are in the EU or not.
arethuza 10y ago
Of the 5 people I know who were pro Brexit: - One blamed being a evacuated kid in WW2 - Two said it was a "protest" vote - and admitted that they didn't want to actually leave the EU - Two said it was because they felt that immigrants made their search for jobs more difficult
deleted 10y ago
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nugget 10y ago

Do you think millenials being priced out of London as it became a global money laundering hub had anything to do with it? That's what I hear from my friends there.

jwblackwell 10y ago
London largely voted remain so not really. However I think youth are rightly frustrated about London prices
- flukus 10y ago
  40% of London voted to leave, that's enough to change the outcome. I don't think pretending there is a huge geographical divide is particularly helpful.
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    If you ignore the protests of some regions how can you address their problems (real or perceived).
  - iaskwhy 10y ago
    It might not be helpful but it's not pretending, there was a huge geographical divide: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028 - Some councils in London, Edinburgh, some Belfast, voted ~75% remain; - Some eastern England ares voted ~25% remain.
  - CM30 10y ago
    There was a huge divide in London too. Places like Camden, Kensington and Barnet overwhelmingly voted remain. Other places like Havering, Barking and Dagenham and Bexley voted to leave. And some areas (like Newham) were extremely close as far as percentages go. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-eu-referendum-results-borough-by-borough-breakdown-of-brexit-poll-a3279731.html http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-eu-referendum... General rule seems to be that places with lots of university students or large businesses tended to vote remain and those with either deeply conservative populations or a lot of immigration tended to vote leave.
    - MagnumOpus 10y ago
      > General rule seems to be that places with lots of university students or large businesses tended to vote remain and those with either deeply conservative populations or a lot of immigration tended to vote leave Doesn't think that is true. Lewisham, Lambeth and Tower Hamlets are some of the places with the most immigrants and remain won in all of these places by obscenely large margins. Maybe votes were more along racial lines - White English (especially the older ones) voting to leave, but people with a more colourful Asian/Caribbean heritage voting to remain?
      - CM30 10y ago
        Not quite. Have you seen the demographics for Barking and Dagenham? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Borough_of_Barking_and_Dagenham#Demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Borough_of_Barking_and_... It's actually been specifically mentioned in a BBC article on the same subject: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21511904 On the other hand, Havering is the least ethnically diverse area in London. Upminster has the lowest Simpson Index in the country. Maybe it's places with the highest and lowest amounts of diversity that voted leave and those in the middle that voted stay?
s_kilk 10y ago
Unlikely. If you look at the age breakdown of the vote, millenials and other assorted youngsters voted overwhelmingly for "Remain", while the older cohort voted for "Leave".
- dingaling 10y ago
  > If you look at the age breakdown of the vote That's not the breakdown of the vote but of exit polls and other opt-in polling such as YouGov surveys. Both of which are biased towards those (1) likely to contribute and (2) not concerned about sharing how they voted. The actual demographic composition of the vote is unknown, it could be determined ( all UK ballot papers are linked to their voter ) but that would be unprecedented and probably bad for democracy.
  - majewsky 10y ago
    > (2) not concerned about sharing how they voted Are exit polls not anonymized in the UK? At the last federal election in Germany, I was asked to contribute in an exit poll, and they had their own voting booth and urn set up for that purpose next to the actual voting room. The ballot was mostly identical, except for additional checkboxes for age group and gender, which they wanted to break down in their analyses. So still reasonably anonymized.
    - dingaling 10y ago
      The exit poll for the EU referendum at my local voting station was conducted by a man with a tablet computer! I didn't stop to investigate the process, unfortunately.
      - CM30 10y ago
        Haven't ever seen an exit poll round here. No one was trying to gage who voted for what near any of these polling stations. Guess it's more common in some areas than others.
  - aninhumer 10y ago
keithpeter 10y ago
If you look at a map showing the breakdown of referendum voting by district you will find that Scotland, London and University towns together with many larger cities voted to remain. Areas of the country that depend most heavily on EU grants (ESF/ERDF) voted to leave. Grant allocation is a reliable indicator of relative lack of investment/development. I don't live in London so I can't comment on conversations there.
smikhanov 10y ago
Becoming a global money laundering hub like London is a wet dream of every major city on this planet. Plus, as the commenter below mentions, London mostly voted remain.
- throwaway13337 10y ago
  It may be the dream of owners of property in London but not those that rent there.
  - smikhanov 10y ago
    Well, keep in mind that for every million processed via, say, Credit Suisse in London, several thousand land up in Accenture (or other IT firm), several go to Deloitte (or other consultancy), some more go to Linklaters (or other law firm). Their employees get their salaries that allow then to support their families and then go drink coffee at Nero and eat sandwiches at Pret. Everyone in this chain -- from Credit Suisse via Accenture to Nero are employing people, growing and paying wages. Now you can go "those high-earning landlord scum" as much as you want, but nobody in their right mind would say that it's better to have a situation in, say, small towns in the Northeastern England where rent is spectacularly low — but so is employment.
  - simonh 10y ago
    If you work in London at all, you get trickle down from the financial services sector. People who work in finance drink in your coffee shop, eat in your restaurant, ride in your bus or taxi, buy things in your shop. Look at what happened in 2008. Finance caught a cold and the entire global economy including Britain fell flat on it's back. Brexit has the potential to do far more damage over a much longer period of time, but mostly just to Britain. The knock on effect across the country isn't going to be pretty. But hey, if the rest of Britain decides they'd rather like to have a long drawn out recession just in order to stick it to the bankers then fine.
    - ionised 10y ago
      And those same people leech off the public purse in order to bail themselves out of their greedy, malicious fuck ups that end up ruining economies and destroying lives.
intoverflow2 10y ago
We're being priced out of everywhere. Paying over the odds for a crappy semi that the boomers hoarded for profit surrounded by leave voters outside of London isn't appealing either. EU was pretty much our lifeline that we could move to somewhere much nicer and affordable in Europe once our careers have been established.

anexprogrammer 10y ago

I guess it depends where you live. In my part of the UK people were overwhelmingly in favour of leave. I wouldn't typically mention I was a remain voter as it was near sure to get me a discussion. Very few claimed the immigration directly - t'was about jobs, or more precisely the lack of them, therefore immigration. A good part of the region is not yet out of the 2008 recession, and house price growth is a joke. When you relatively recently had a well paying job with which you supported your family, yet now you're not making ends meet in a temporary delivery driver fake-freelance job, as that's all you can get despite skills, it's hard to see much logic in the "dynamic globalized economy". Now then, I'd argue that for most in tht position, the social justice, work regulation and regional development funds of the EU would be something to heavily vote for. The EU, though, has always been appalling at making a case for itself - hence distant EU bureaucrats and other tropes. Sadly, Boris's bullshit of £350m to the NHS and evil EU immigrants taking your jobs touched sore nerves and lead to the leave votes. Now we get a government that looks like it will lurch heavily to the right, and as far as London and the tories are concerned, the regions can go f* themselves. Turkeys voting for Christmas perhaps, but I do undertand the reasons why, least round these parts. I'd say the root cause goes all the way back to Thatcher and the loss of local industry, from which many towns have still not recovered.

jamespo 10y ago
You can look more recently than that, the failed austerity experiment contributed to these conditions
- anexprogrammer 10y ago
  Both really. For places like Middlesborough or Burnley they're a shadow of their former 80s selves. Austerity there is just a case of rubbing salt into the still open wound.
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    Early in my career I regularly visited towns like Middlesborough and Burnley, installing IT systems. There was a lot of unskilled and semi-skilled work available at those businesses that has either been shipped out to China or automated away. Those jobs aren't coming back, whether we are in the EU or not.

arethuza 10y ago

Of the 5 people I know who were pro Brexit: - One blamed being a evacuated kid in WW2 - Two said it was a "protest" vote - and admitted that they didn't want to actually leave the EU - Two said it was because they felt that immigrants made their search for jobs more difficult

deleted 10y ago

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