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I find it rather hilarious that all you can muster is 'that's racist'. It pretty much means 'I can't produce a coherent argument that counters what you said but

by omonra 10y ago

I find it rather hilarious that all you can muster is 'that's racist'. It pretty much means 'I can't produce a coherent argument that counters what you said but I don't like it, so I'll call it x-ist'. Your second point might make sense if Africa had middle class before Europeans arrived. The fact that there is civilization there after colonization doesn't in any way refute the original point. I personally don't know whether Africa was on track to have civilization without colonialism (other people commenting that 'people around the world got there' is nonsense as most societies throughout history didn't get civilization on their own). But I detest trying to shut someone up merely because you don't find their thinking agreeable.

yoo1I 10y ago
> But I detest trying to shut someone up This is your imagination. Challenging someone's ideas is not shutting them up. Especially if their ideas are as misguided, and yes, racist, as to believe the whole continent of Africa was unable to develop without the help of the white Europeans. > I personally don't know whether Africa was on track to have civilization without colonialism Are you seriously suggesting that there was no civilization in Africa before colonialism ? You know, I'm not trying to shut you up, by this point you're so far off, that it doesn't even make sense to have a conversation. Or said much more succinctly: The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it, and ain't nobody got time for that.
- omonra 10y ago
  What I meant was not a civilization in the abstract sense of the word but rather what we consider modernity (as brought to us by Europe). My understanding is that Asia is widely expected to get there without Europe - but it's not clear for Africa. In the case of America there actually were quite a few civilizations on the upswing when Europeans arrived (and killed everybody off with their diseases). I am yet to see the same said about Africa.
  - meira 10y ago
    I think you probably watched too much whitewashed movies about the Egypt and internalized that it is an European country, don't you?
  - carapace 10y ago
    On a visit to England, Gandhi was asked, "What do you think of Western civilization?" He replied, "I think it would be a good idea." I think you're confusing "modernity" with the steam engine and the Scientific Method. Little else distinguishes modern civilization from those of the past. The Renaissance was "re-birth" of something that had gone before, etc... Everyone thought the Egyptians were the height of Civilization, except the Egyptians themselves. They thought it was the Nubians.
meira 10y ago
Your opinion is stupidly racist, as probably is the owner of the opinion. Egypt was far developed intelectually than any other country for centuries, most of the called "western" culture was built using their foundation (and we can see huge parts of it until today, like freemasonry). Your point of view is flawed because you know little.
- omonra 10y ago
  You're absolutely right about Egypt - but when people talk about Africa they usually imply sub-Saharan part of the continent (not the mediterranean civilizations).
carapace 10y ago
That's not "all I could muster". I could muster a book, or library. I'm not trying to shut them up, I'm trying to get them to think.
- omonra 10y ago
  Ok sure - then go ahead and do that. Say 'Have a look at X or Y'. By saying 'That's racist' you come out meaning to stop the conversation because you have nothing more substantial to say.
  - carapace 10y ago
    There's no conversation to be had with a racist: they are suffering from a mental and emotional disease. The relevant thing to do is offer medicine, or if they refuse to try to help themselves heal from their sickness, isolate them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqH_0LPVoho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqH_0LPVoho Good day.

by omonra 10y ago

yoo1I 10y ago

> But I detest trying to shut someone up This is your imagination. Challenging someone's ideas is not shutting them up. Especially if their ideas are as misguided, and yes, racist, as to believe the whole continent of Africa was unable to develop without the help of the white Europeans. > I personally don't know whether Africa was on track to have civilization without colonialism Are you seriously suggesting that there was no civilization in Africa before colonialism ? You know, I'm not trying to shut you up, by this point you're so far off, that it doesn't even make sense to have a conversation. Or said much more succinctly: The amount of energy necessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it, and ain't nobody got time for that.

omonra 10y ago
What I meant was not a civilization in the abstract sense of the word but rather what we consider modernity (as brought to us by Europe). My understanding is that Asia is widely expected to get there without Europe - but it's not clear for Africa. In the case of America there actually were quite a few civilizations on the upswing when Europeans arrived (and killed everybody off with their diseases). I am yet to see the same said about Africa.
- meira 10y ago
  I think you probably watched too much whitewashed movies about the Egypt and internalized that it is an European country, don't you?
- carapace 10y ago
  On a visit to England, Gandhi was asked, "What do you think of Western civilization?" He replied, "I think it would be a good idea." I think you're confusing "modernity" with the steam engine and the Scientific Method. Little else distinguishes modern civilization from those of the past. The Renaissance was "re-birth" of something that had gone before, etc... Everyone thought the Egyptians were the height of Civilization, except the Egyptians themselves. They thought it was the Nubians.

meira 10y ago

Your opinion is stupidly racist, as probably is the owner of the opinion. Egypt was far developed intelectually than any other country for centuries, most of the called "western" culture was built using their foundation (and we can see huge parts of it until today, like freemasonry). Your point of view is flawed because you know little.

omonra 10y ago
You're absolutely right about Egypt - but when people talk about Africa they usually imply sub-Saharan part of the continent (not the mediterranean civilizations).

carapace 10y ago

That's not "all I could muster". I could muster a book, or library. I'm not trying to shut them up, I'm trying to get them to think.

omonra 10y ago
Ok sure - then go ahead and do that. Say 'Have a look at X or Y'. By saying 'That's racist' you come out meaning to stop the conversation because you have nothing more substantial to say.
- carapace 10y ago
  There's no conversation to be had with a racist: they are suffering from a mental and emotional disease. The relevant thing to do is offer medicine, or if they refuse to try to help themselves heal from their sickness, isolate them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqH_0LPVoho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqH_0LPVoho Good day.