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The way the screenshot is cropped is misleading. The actual page makes it clear this feature is opt-in. If you're logged into a Google account and haven't alre

The way the screenshot is cropped is misleading. The actual page makes it clear this feature is opt-in. If you're logged into a Google account and haven't already made a choice on the page you can see it at http://www.google.com/settings/ads http://www.google.com/settings/ads.

bunderbunder 10y ago
I'm not convinced it's opt-in. I just visited that page, and everything was switched on. I can't profess to having a perfect memory, but I can say that opting in would have been pretty out of character thing for me to do.
- forgotpwtomain 10y ago
  > I'm not convinced it's opt-in. I just visited that page, and everything was switched on. I can't profess to having a perfect memory, but I can say that opting in would have been pretty out of character thing for me to do. I in fact explicitly remember clicking no to a prompt similar to this one, so I'm very puzzled how I got auto-opted in anyways..
  - Washuu 10y ago
    I just got this prompt yesterday and explicitly opted out. It has it opted in currently in the Activity Controls of my account. Clearly this opt out screen does not work.
    - alainv 10y ago
      Activity Controls is whether or not Google logs Web/App activity. The Ads opt-out controls interest-based ads as a whole, including from Web & App Activity if enabled.
  - taneq 10y ago
    "Auto-opted in." I can't wait for dodgy software bundlers to start using this doublespeak terminology.
- sesutton 10y ago
  Ad personalization is on by default. The checkbox that says: > Also use Google Account activity and information to personalize ads on these websites and apps and store that data in your Google Account Should be off if you didn't opt-in though. I just tested it with a new Google account and it was off after I opted out.
  - swsieber 10y ago
    "Not opting in" is very different than "opting out". "Not opting in" implies you are are opted out by default. Thus everyone's negative reaction.
bruxis 10y ago
I don't recall ever enabling this but this is enabled already for me. (note that not recalling doesn't mean I never enabled it, however it would have had to have been fairly inconspicuously for me to "opt-in")
- MichaelMoser123 10y ago
  what about 'don't be evil'; have they silently changed the corporate motto, or is it now an 'opt-in' clause ? ( opt-in for the customers 'request that no evil be done to you', the customers are otherwise known as 'the product' https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/11/surveillance_as_1.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/11/surveillance_... )
  - hornbaker 10y ago
    "Don't be evil if someone explicitly asks you to not be evil."
  - arkadiyt 10y ago
    Google replaced "Don't be evil" with "Do the right thing": https://www.engadget.com/2015/10/02/alphabet-do-the-right-thing/ https://www.engadget.com/2015/10/02/alphabet-do-the-right-th...
    - wyaeld 10y ago
      Do the right thing for customers, or for shareholders?
      - blowski 10y ago
        Like all profit-making businesses, they try to balance the interests of both in the short term to maximise shareholder value in the long run. A few Hacker News users being opposed to this doesn't make Google evil. A lot of people don't care, and I've met some who think it's a good idea.
nilved 10y ago
When I look at this ad settings page, it has a list of topics Google thinks I'm interested in. I've heard of half of them and am interested in none. I would be worried about Google collecting my data only if they were competent enough to misuse it.
- pdkl95 10y ago
  Never mind if they are competent enough to misuse it today; giving Google data assumes they won't *become8 competent enough to misuse it in the future. Collection isn't what you should be worried about. The problem is that the collected data is persistent and combined with other data in the future. Just timestamps from the browser can paint a surprisingly fine-grain picture of your pattern-of-life. I'm sure far more interesting interpretations can be found with the many machine learning techniques and other analysis methods that are currently being invented.
Dr_tldr 10y ago
It's explicitly not "opt-in" since the default setting is turned to "on" (tested with multiple accounts) without any prompting. Opt-out is better than nothing, but it's a pretty suspect move to say "oops, you were accidentally opted in to something that would make us money without your permission." I'd respect them a lot more if they came right out and said "let us sell your data or start paying for our services." That would at least be a fair choice, and I'd be happy(ish) to pay google 10 bucks a month if they promised not to sell my information on the side.
- lloeki 10y ago
  > "let us sell your data or start paying for our services." Same page: > What’s still the same? > Google does not sell your personal information to anyone. The wording may matter so here are real questions that I can't seem to get definitive answers for because everyone seems to have strong opinions either way but no reference ever: - Does "aggregated data from multiple users" or "anonymized data form a single user" still counts as personal from Google's PoV? - Is Google effectively selling data in any way or is it only using data to back a service up? (e.g ads are getting served based on profile but the profile itself never leaves Google) I'd be thankful if anyone points me to unambiguous text (ToS or other) pertaining to each question, whatever the answer is.
- Oletros 10y ago
  > and I'd be happy(ish) to pay google 10 bucks a month if they promised not to sell my information on the side. They don't have to do that because Google doesn't sell any data
  - victorhooi 10y ago
    Google does offer something like this - Google for Work is $10 a month . https://goo.gl/XNykgg https://goo.gl/XNykgg (Disclaimer: Referral) But basically, Google for Work is like normal Google services (Gmail, Google Drive, Hangouts, etc), except without advertisements and more restrictions on what they do with your data: https://support.google.com/work/answer/6056650?hl=en https://support.google.com/work/answer/6056650?hl=en (Privacy policy for Google for Work) There are of course other benefits and extra controls/features as well, but it at least covers your main point.
PunchTornado 10y ago
do you know the meaning of opt-in? because it is clearly opt-out.

bunderbunder 10y ago

I'm not convinced it's opt-in. I just visited that page, and everything was switched on. I can't profess to having a perfect memory, but I can say that opting in would have been pretty out of character thing for me to do.

forgotpwtomain 10y ago
> I'm not convinced it's opt-in. I just visited that page, and everything was switched on. I can't profess to having a perfect memory, but I can say that opting in would have been pretty out of character thing for me to do. I in fact explicitly remember clicking no to a prompt similar to this one, so I'm very puzzled how I got auto-opted in anyways..
- Washuu 10y ago
  I just got this prompt yesterday and explicitly opted out. It has it opted in currently in the Activity Controls of my account. Clearly this opt out screen does not work.
  - alainv 10y ago
    Activity Controls is whether or not Google logs Web/App activity. The Ads opt-out controls interest-based ads as a whole, including from Web & App Activity if enabled.
- taneq 10y ago
  "Auto-opted in." I can't wait for dodgy software bundlers to start using this doublespeak terminology.
sesutton 10y ago
Ad personalization is on by default. The checkbox that says: > Also use Google Account activity and information to personalize ads on these websites and apps and store that data in your Google Account Should be off if you didn't opt-in though. I just tested it with a new Google account and it was off after I opted out.
- swsieber 10y ago
  "Not opting in" is very different than "opting out". "Not opting in" implies you are are opted out by default. Thus everyone's negative reaction.

bruxis 10y ago

I don't recall ever enabling this but this is enabled already for me. (note that not recalling doesn't mean I never enabled it, however it would have had to have been fairly inconspicuously for me to "opt-in")

MichaelMoser123 10y ago
what about 'don't be evil'; have they silently changed the corporate motto, or is it now an 'opt-in' clause ? ( opt-in for the customers 'request that no evil be done to you', the customers are otherwise known as 'the product' https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/11/surveillance_as_1.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/11/surveillance_... )
- hornbaker 10y ago
  "Don't be evil if someone explicitly asks you to not be evil."
- arkadiyt 10y ago
  Google replaced "Don't be evil" with "Do the right thing": https://www.engadget.com/2015/10/02/alphabet-do-the-right-thing/ https://www.engadget.com/2015/10/02/alphabet-do-the-right-th...
  - wyaeld 10y ago
    Do the right thing for customers, or for shareholders?
    - blowski 10y ago
      Like all profit-making businesses, they try to balance the interests of both in the short term to maximise shareholder value in the long run. A few Hacker News users being opposed to this doesn't make Google evil. A lot of people don't care, and I've met some who think it's a good idea.

nilved 10y ago

When I look at this ad settings page, it has a list of topics Google thinks I'm interested in. I've heard of half of them and am interested in none. I would be worried about Google collecting my data only if they were competent enough to misuse it.

pdkl95 10y ago
Never mind if they are competent enough to misuse it today; giving Google data assumes they won't *become8 competent enough to misuse it in the future. Collection isn't what you should be worried about. The problem is that the collected data is persistent and combined with other data in the future. Just timestamps from the browser can paint a surprisingly fine-grain picture of your pattern-of-life. I'm sure far more interesting interpretations can be found with the many machine learning techniques and other analysis methods that are currently being invented.

Dr_tldr 10y ago

It's explicitly not "opt-in" since the default setting is turned to "on" (tested with multiple accounts) without any prompting. Opt-out is better than nothing, but it's a pretty suspect move to say "oops, you were accidentally opted in to something that would make us money without your permission." I'd respect them a lot more if they came right out and said "let us sell your data or start paying for our services." That would at least be a fair choice, and I'd be happy(ish) to pay google 10 bucks a month if they promised not to sell my information on the side.

lloeki 10y ago
> "let us sell your data or start paying for our services." Same page: > What’s still the same? > Google does not sell your personal information to anyone. The wording may matter so here are real questions that I can't seem to get definitive answers for because everyone seems to have strong opinions either way but no reference ever: - Does "aggregated data from multiple users" or "anonymized data form a single user" still counts as personal from Google's PoV? - Is Google effectively selling data in any way or is it only using data to back a service up? (e.g ads are getting served based on profile but the profile itself never leaves Google) I'd be thankful if anyone points me to unambiguous text (ToS or other) pertaining to each question, whatever the answer is.
Oletros 10y ago
> and I'd be happy(ish) to pay google 10 bucks a month if they promised not to sell my information on the side. They don't have to do that because Google doesn't sell any data
- victorhooi 10y ago
  Google does offer something like this - Google for Work is $10 a month . https://goo.gl/XNykgg https://goo.gl/XNykgg (Disclaimer: Referral) But basically, Google for Work is like normal Google services (Gmail, Google Drive, Hangouts, etc), except without advertisements and more restrictions on what they do with your data: https://support.google.com/work/answer/6056650?hl=en https://support.google.com/work/answer/6056650?hl=en (Privacy policy for Google for Work) There are of course other benefits and extra controls/features as well, but it at least covers your main point.

PunchTornado 10y ago

do you know the meaning of opt-in? because it is clearly opt-out.