5 ms·

I love how it's always others being evil and 'discriminate' against the muslims that then become terrorists. Like, 'Those evil, evil westerners rejected him and

by Kenji 10y ago

I love how it's always others being evil and 'discriminate' against the muslims that then become terrorists. Like, 'Those evil, evil westerners rejected him and did not appreciate his culture. That was the catalyst for him wanting to become a terrorist.' Imagine this: You go to a foreign country or are raised in a foreign culture (because things in your own country are horrible at the moment). You feel mistreated (even though they provide you with asylum and quite literally save your life and provide you with all you need), for example in a job or at school. This makes you feel like you have to kill people to make your point, and you have to be a terrorist, so you set out to wage this war. This is utter lunacy. This is not the spark for terrorism - a careless upbringing without proper values and with extremist ideologies is. Let me tell you something: Culture matters. A lot. Not race and not birthplace. But what you believe to be moral and true fundamentally shapes not only how you view the world but how you interact with it. What we need is moral education, a reform (enlightenment) in muslim culture and stop being apologist by blaming ourselves.

cyberferret 10y ago
Let me guess - you've never been in a large group situation where you are seemingly accepted, but nearly everyone looks down upon you and treats you with constant suspicion and questions your motives and reminds you on a regular basis that you are different, and that you are lucky to be part of the group. Have you?
- HappyFunGuy 10y ago
  Since you were obtuse in describing the "large groups situation" are you talking about fat kids? or fat adults? or nerds? Did you steal my cake? Or are you trying to talk about race? Or age? Dude, wtf are you talking about? Are you talking about being a minority? English. Speak it.
  - cyberferret 10y ago
    ALL the scenarios you mentioned above apply. The fact that you cannot seem to grasp that probably indicates that you are outside all of those groups, and have never experienced what I stated (in plain English) in my original post. Let me give you an example from my own experience - I am of sub-continental heritage, and my family migrated to Australia over 3 decades ago. It has been 99.999% a fantastic life and I embrace the great life and great people here. But a few years back there were a few high profile cases of young Indian men brutally raping women in India, and other places. The mass media latched onto this and immediately went into portraying any man of Indian descent as being a brutal rapist in waiting. I felt that societal change. Almost overnight, I noticed people move away from me when I entered a store. There was a measured difference in the hostility I experienced when talking to people I didn't know. Young women would cross the street when they saw me approach, and cross back after I had passed. Observing these changes DID cause a rage to boil up inside me. How could someone who didn't even know me as a person judge me by the actions of others. I had done everything I could to integrate and embrace this new world, but for the first time ever, I felt unwanted and that my presence was causing discomfort for those around me. It never got to the extent of projecting that hurt and anger at anyone else, nor would I, because that is not in my nature. Thankfully the media lost interest in that narrative fairly quickly, and people now treat me in an open friendly way as before. But if those negative perceptions were perpetually front and centre in the media, and I had to bear the brunt of it for an extended period then I really don't know how my ultimate reaction would have manifested itself.
  - sctb 10y ago
    We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines. We're happy to unban accounts if you email hn@ycombinator.com and we believe that they'll post only civilly and substantively in the future.
- DominikR 10y ago
  Seriously, who cares? Everyone of us will have to deal at some point in life with people that look down upon us for stupid reasons. That doesn't give you an excuse to kill 100 random strangers! It is their culture that causes this, as they have a loud group that constantly calls for these massacres and generally very few of them speak up against this loud group of fanatics. We don't have anything like that in our culture, that's why it's so rare that somebody from us ends up mass murdering 100 random persons. If someone from us tried calling for mass murdering some minority he'll actually be locked up in no time and attacked harshly by the media. That's how we effectively deal with our radicals. I'm tired of all these attempts to appease members of this culture as it is clearly a much worse culture than ours and they could actually learn something from us. Where ever Muslims are the majority you always see the same result: Poverty, cruel law system, oppression, massacre and often civil war And somehow no one seems to be willing to accept that this is the direct result of their value system and their culture. How are they ever going to improve their societies if we help their fanatics to keep oppressing dissenters by constantly repeating that their culture is great and everything's fine? Edit: And because I'm sure someone will state that this is unfair because we constantly meddle in their affairs: We also constantly meddle in Russian, Chinese, Indian, Japanese and EU affairs and vice versa. Still these societies seem to be sufficiently resilient to not collapse in mass murder and total chaos. Muslim societies constantly collapsed when Socialism was en vogue 50 years ago same as they collapse today with Islamism. You can promote any -Ism you want there, nothing will change as long as the oppressive nature of their culture doesn't change.
  - cyberferret 10y ago
    > We don't have anything like that in our culture, that's why it's so rare that somebody from us ends up mass murdering 100 random persons. The USA has something endemic in their culture which results in toddlers killing more people that terrorists have in their country this year. People in other countries without this same culture try telling the US how that can stop it by trying the same things that worked in their own countries but keep being told to go away, there is nothing wrong and to mind their own business. > We also constantly meddle in Russian, Chinese, Indian, Japanese and EU affairs and vice versa. Still these societies seem to be sufficiently resilient to not collapse in mass murder and total chaos. Does the US 'meddle' in those countries to the extent of placing troops on the ground within their borders in order to shoot at citizens of said country? Does the US conduct drone strikes against people of those countries?
noobermin 10y ago
I have an explanation for why they entertained such lunacy: they are kids and don't make a full philosophical evaluation of their state in life. That certainly fits in this case. Moreover, it's not like the Muslim parents wanted their children to go wage Jihad on the west. Once again, we see in this case the radicalization happens outside the mosque amongst splinter groups, so asking that "Muslim culture" have a cultural shift is the wrong place to ask for change given that the kids didn't want to follow "the old guys" in the mosque anyway. Not that influences from the Mosque wouldn't help, and I don't know if these Mosque leaders helped or hurt but my impression from the story is that they were rebelled against too.

by Kenji 10y ago

cyberferret 10y ago

Let me guess - you've never been in a large group situation where you are seemingly accepted, but nearly everyone looks down upon you and treats you with constant suspicion and questions your motives and reminds you on a regular basis that you are different, and that you are lucky to be part of the group. Have you?

HappyFunGuy 10y ago
Since you were obtuse in describing the "large groups situation" are you talking about fat kids? or fat adults? or nerds? Did you steal my cake? Or are you trying to talk about race? Or age? Dude, wtf are you talking about? Are you talking about being a minority? English. Speak it.
- cyberferret 10y ago
  ALL the scenarios you mentioned above apply. The fact that you cannot seem to grasp that probably indicates that you are outside all of those groups, and have never experienced what I stated (in plain English) in my original post. Let me give you an example from my own experience - I am of sub-continental heritage, and my family migrated to Australia over 3 decades ago. It has been 99.999% a fantastic life and I embrace the great life and great people here. But a few years back there were a few high profile cases of young Indian men brutally raping women in India, and other places. The mass media latched onto this and immediately went into portraying any man of Indian descent as being a brutal rapist in waiting. I felt that societal change. Almost overnight, I noticed people move away from me when I entered a store. There was a measured difference in the hostility I experienced when talking to people I didn't know. Young women would cross the street when they saw me approach, and cross back after I had passed. Observing these changes DID cause a rage to boil up inside me. How could someone who didn't even know me as a person judge me by the actions of others. I had done everything I could to integrate and embrace this new world, but for the first time ever, I felt unwanted and that my presence was causing discomfort for those around me. It never got to the extent of projecting that hurt and anger at anyone else, nor would I, because that is not in my nature. Thankfully the media lost interest in that narrative fairly quickly, and people now treat me in an open friendly way as before. But if those negative perceptions were perpetually front and centre in the media, and I had to bear the brunt of it for an extended period then I really don't know how my ultimate reaction would have manifested itself.
- sctb 10y ago
  We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines. We're happy to unban accounts if you email hn@ycombinator.com and we believe that they'll post only civilly and substantively in the future.
DominikR 10y ago
Seriously, who cares? Everyone of us will have to deal at some point in life with people that look down upon us for stupid reasons. That doesn't give you an excuse to kill 100 random strangers! It is their culture that causes this, as they have a loud group that constantly calls for these massacres and generally very few of them speak up against this loud group of fanatics. We don't have anything like that in our culture, that's why it's so rare that somebody from us ends up mass murdering 100 random persons. If someone from us tried calling for mass murdering some minority he'll actually be locked up in no time and attacked harshly by the media. That's how we effectively deal with our radicals. I'm tired of all these attempts to appease members of this culture as it is clearly a much worse culture than ours and they could actually learn something from us. Where ever Muslims are the majority you always see the same result: Poverty, cruel law system, oppression, massacre and often civil war And somehow no one seems to be willing to accept that this is the direct result of their value system and their culture. How are they ever going to improve their societies if we help their fanatics to keep oppressing dissenters by constantly repeating that their culture is great and everything's fine? Edit: And because I'm sure someone will state that this is unfair because we constantly meddle in their affairs: We also constantly meddle in Russian, Chinese, Indian, Japanese and EU affairs and vice versa. Still these societies seem to be sufficiently resilient to not collapse in mass murder and total chaos. Muslim societies constantly collapsed when Socialism was en vogue 50 years ago same as they collapse today with Islamism. You can promote any -Ism you want there, nothing will change as long as the oppressive nature of their culture doesn't change.
- cyberferret 10y ago
  > We don't have anything like that in our culture, that's why it's so rare that somebody from us ends up mass murdering 100 random persons. The USA has something endemic in their culture which results in toddlers killing more people that terrorists have in their country this year. People in other countries without this same culture try telling the US how that can stop it by trying the same things that worked in their own countries but keep being told to go away, there is nothing wrong and to mind their own business. > We also constantly meddle in Russian, Chinese, Indian, Japanese and EU affairs and vice versa. Still these societies seem to be sufficiently resilient to not collapse in mass murder and total chaos. Does the US 'meddle' in those countries to the extent of placing troops on the ground within their borders in order to shoot at citizens of said country? Does the US conduct drone strikes against people of those countries?

noobermin 10y ago

I have an explanation for why they entertained such lunacy: they are kids and don't make a full philosophical evaluation of their state in life. That certainly fits in this case. Moreover, it's not like the Muslim parents wanted their children to go wage Jihad on the west. Once again, we see in this case the radicalization happens outside the mosque amongst splinter groups, so asking that "Muslim culture" have a cultural shift is the wrong place to ask for change given that the kids didn't want to follow "the old guys" in the mosque anyway. Not that influences from the Mosque wouldn't help, and I don't know if these Mosque leaders helped or hurt but my impression from the story is that they were rebelled against too.