5 ms·

Hearing a policeman take responsibility for his life getting derailed really moved Jamal. He agreed to come into Link's office. They are doing good work. This

by Mz 10y ago

Hearing a policeman take responsibility for his life getting derailed really moved Jamal. He agreed to come into Link's office. They are doing good work. This all fits with everything I have ever read about how to undermine extremism, radicalization, etc. Time does not tend to heal such wounds. It tends to make them fester. That doesn't mean they cannot be healed.

noobermin 10y ago
Unfortunately, this section is becoming a political thread while I feel like there is more to be said about psychology here. It feels unnatural especially to accept someone back when they've essentially fought against you. At worse, one would wonder if you embolden criminals when you do this. I think it comes down to motivation. If a criminal is say like a sadist rapist, giving him a hug after he rapes will just embolden him to commit more crime. That's because his motivations are due to internal forces/perversions. However, if someone is motivated like Jamal due to discrimination, the thing he wanted in the first place was acceptance, so accepting him leaves him with no reason to commit crime. Unfortunately, you can't read inside someone's head. Some people just want to be a Jihadist. Some want to see blood and kill. Some just want to belong. I think the best thing to do is to do both...help those who want to be helped and reach those who could be reached, and fight vehemently those who simply want glory or want to get their kicks. How do you know when or when not for this or that case? I guess you pay investigators a nice salary to figure that out because blanket policy is only so effective.
- HappyFunGuy 10y ago
  We can read inside peoples heads. We call it listening. What people want is to feel important, some rape, some jihad, and some virtue signal. The overhead of even needing to measure or guess their real intention or state exceeds their lifetime value to the culture in comparison to the best viable alternative immigrant. You're cash negative even bothering to measure their riskiness.
- Mz 10y ago
  This is something that can be studied. Social psychology. Negotiation and conflict resolution. Etc. I have had such classes. First, he reached out to him with his own agenda. Naturally, having been crapped on by so many people, the young man was suspicious. So, he apologized specifically for the role his own department had played in the ongoing tragedy of this guy's life. He did not just say "Sorry your life sucks." He distanced himself from the wrongdoing of the officers the guy had previously interacted with, showed that his agenda was not harmful, it was a good faith agenda. Then he hooked him up with a role model who could provide social proof that there was real hope that this could be resolved. He gave him a model for how to solve. He gave him an attractive alternative to becoming a terrorist. The young man did not previously have an attractive alternative. The article seriously simplified the process. Since this unit is successful in what it does, presumably they are more informed about the various pieces of this than whoever wrote the article. The forgive and forget model does not work. But this kid was turning bad largely due to bad things happening to him. He was mistreated by the police the first time. His pissed off remark at school should have never turned into so much trouble for him. To some extent, his second contact with the police redressed this wrong. The apology was not just empty words.
gkya 10y ago
One thing is obvious and always skipped, maybe because of insensitivity: alienation and exclusion is not an evil, planned act, but mostly unintentional. The first generation immigrant workers do cope well with this because they acknowledge and accept it before they immigrate, and do have a purpose to be there and bear the situation. But the later generations don't have no motives to be there, but are thrown into it. And thus they can't handle inevitable cultural incompatibilities. They want to socialise and mix in, like every kid, but that is not possible, so there begins the path to radicalisation, that goes through depression, solitude, and other sufferings. Most of the time their economic situation is well below average too. It matters. And it's not limited to muslims only. There are christians who convert and join the IS: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/07/isis-foreign-fighters-political-pilgrims/399209/ http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/07/isi... https://www.rt.com/uk/184212-british-mother-isis-christians/ https://www.rt.com/uk/184212-british-mother-isis-christians/ http://www.christiantoday.com/article/us.government.unable.to.stop.americans.from.joining.isis.congress.report.says/66287.htm http://www.christiantoday.com/article/us.government.unable.t... http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/23/world/isis-luring-westerners/ http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/23/world/isis-luring-westerne... http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/25/world/isis-western-recruits/ http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/25/world/isis-western-recruit... http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/why-are-so-many-westerners-joining-isis/ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/why-are-so-many-we...
return0 10y ago
See, this looks to be the work that their religious mentor should be doing.
- Mz 10y ago
  It is more meaningful and powerful when it comes sincerely from the party that wronged you, with some form of redress. I am not a fan of religion. I am a fan of social psychology and peace studies. I think religion was the world's earliest attempts to record social wisdom, before it could be properly studied.

by Mz 10y ago

noobermin 10y ago

Unfortunately, this section is becoming a political thread while I feel like there is more to be said about psychology here. It feels unnatural especially to accept someone back when they've essentially fought against you. At worse, one would wonder if you embolden criminals when you do this. I think it comes down to motivation. If a criminal is say like a sadist rapist, giving him a hug after he rapes will just embolden him to commit more crime. That's because his motivations are due to internal forces/perversions. However, if someone is motivated like Jamal due to discrimination, the thing he wanted in the first place was acceptance, so accepting him leaves him with no reason to commit crime. Unfortunately, you can't read inside someone's head. Some people just want to be a Jihadist. Some want to see blood and kill. Some just want to belong. I think the best thing to do is to do both...help those who want to be helped and reach those who could be reached, and fight vehemently those who simply want glory or want to get their kicks. How do you know when or when not for this or that case? I guess you pay investigators a nice salary to figure that out because blanket policy is only so effective.

HappyFunGuy 10y ago
We can read inside peoples heads. We call it listening. What people want is to feel important, some rape, some jihad, and some virtue signal. The overhead of even needing to measure or guess their real intention or state exceeds their lifetime value to the culture in comparison to the best viable alternative immigrant. You're cash negative even bothering to measure their riskiness.
Mz 10y ago
This is something that can be studied. Social psychology. Negotiation and conflict resolution. Etc. I have had such classes. First, he reached out to him with his own agenda. Naturally, having been crapped on by so many people, the young man was suspicious. So, he apologized specifically for the role his own department had played in the ongoing tragedy of this guy's life. He did not just say "Sorry your life sucks." He distanced himself from the wrongdoing of the officers the guy had previously interacted with, showed that his agenda was not harmful, it was a good faith agenda. Then he hooked him up with a role model who could provide social proof that there was real hope that this could be resolved. He gave him a model for how to solve. He gave him an attractive alternative to becoming a terrorist. The young man did not previously have an attractive alternative. The article seriously simplified the process. Since this unit is successful in what it does, presumably they are more informed about the various pieces of this than whoever wrote the article. The forgive and forget model does not work. But this kid was turning bad largely due to bad things happening to him. He was mistreated by the police the first time. His pissed off remark at school should have never turned into so much trouble for him. To some extent, his second contact with the police redressed this wrong. The apology was not just empty words.

gkya 10y ago

One thing is obvious and always skipped, maybe because of insensitivity: alienation and exclusion is not an evil, planned act, but mostly unintentional. The first generation immigrant workers do cope well with this because they acknowledge and accept it before they immigrate, and do have a purpose to be there and bear the situation. But the later generations don't have no motives to be there, but are thrown into it. And thus they can't handle inevitable cultural incompatibilities. They want to socialise and mix in, like every kid, but that is not possible, so there begins the path to radicalisation, that goes through depression, solitude, and other sufferings. Most of the time their economic situation is well below average too. It matters. And it's not limited to muslims only. There are christians who convert and join the IS: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/07/isis-foreign-fighters-political-pilgrims/399209/ http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/07/isi... https://www.rt.com/uk/184212-british-mother-isis-christians/ https://www.rt.com/uk/184212-british-mother-isis-christians/ http://www.christiantoday.com/article/us.government.unable.to.stop.americans.from.joining.isis.congress.report.says/66287.htm http://www.christiantoday.com/article/us.government.unable.t... http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/23/world/isis-luring-westerners/ http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/23/world/isis-luring-westerne... http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/25/world/isis-western-recruits/ http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/25/world/isis-western-recruit... http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/why-are-so-many-westerners-joining-isis/ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/why-are-so-many-we...

return0 10y ago

See, this looks to be the work that their religious mentor should be doing.

Mz 10y ago
It is more meaningful and powerful when it comes sincerely from the party that wronged you, with some form of redress. I am not a fan of religion. I am a fan of social psychology and peace studies. I think religion was the world's earliest attempts to record social wisdom, before it could be properly studied.