5 ms·

I keep hearing this and it does not comfort me much. Remember how the West had a problem with... The Taliban... then Al-Qaeda...... then ISIS.......... then ?

I keep hearing this and it does not comfort me much. Remember how the West had a problem with... The Taliban... then Al-Qaeda...... then ISIS.......... then ?? The names are changing but something else remains constant or is getting worse.

ameen 10y ago
One constant factor is strife in the region. Provides a constant source of enraged youngsters seeking revenge after being hard done by an outsider (death in family, unemployment, living under an authoritarian govt, illiteracy, etc). This will continue until weapons need to be sold. Military Industrial complex is a thing and it needs blood to lubricate its wheels.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  There are plenty of other countries which are considerably poorer than the middle east. Circa 2010 Syria wasn't a "bad" place, the average income was greater than that say of India, it was about equal to that of Moldova and the Republic of Macedonia both which are both EU accession candidates. Syrians (and Saudis) who joined the insurgency in Iraq weren't disenfranchised infact they were from the elite, often dropping out of university to go and join the "cause". Osama Bin Laden who founded AQ was born into one of the richest families in the world, had higher education and really had no hard done to him by anyone. Europeans who join ISIS are mostly 2nd and 3rd generation "immigrants", often to mixed families and "fresh converts", they aren't particularly disenfranchised either. Geopolitics and economics do have a role in conflicts everywhere, but the sooner you stop blaming everything on people being poor, oppressed and "western expansionism" the sooner we might actually be able to start working on a solution. Last time I've checked Tibet is effectively poorer than Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia, not to mention the smaller gulf states (and I'm not counting the average which is skewed because of how the wealth is distributed) and it's quite objectively oppressed but I have yet to see Tibetans blowing up restaurants in China.
  - internaut 10y ago
    If you read enough old books you'll notice that the authors ascribe a general temperament to each European nation. The word temperament today is not in common use except in animal breeding and the nearest equivalent we have today is the word stereotype, which captures some but not all of the meaning. Here is a formal example of what I mean: http://i.imgur.com/r3bom1c.jpg http://i.imgur.com/r3bom1c.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Qen8lBA.png http://i.imgur.com/Qen8lBA.png While some of this is hilariously old fashioned or historical period specific, it is also interesting just how many traits are consistent enough that we recognize them centuries later. This could be astrology or tea leaf reading, but I think it merits a genuine scientific investigation. It may be anecdotal but far too many people agree the Italians are very fond of chatting, including the Italians. All of this is to say, while it is true that Islam is dominant in countries where periodic religious warfare breaks out, it is possibly Islam is derived from collective temperament and not the other way around. It should definitely be treated seriously as a hypothesis.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
toomanybeersies 10y ago
The Taliban and AQ are two very different problems. The Taliban is a regional force, who don't have international ambitions, they are/were faction in a civil war.

ameen 10y ago

One constant factor is strife in the region. Provides a constant source of enraged youngsters seeking revenge after being hard done by an outsider (death in family, unemployment, living under an authoritarian govt, illiteracy, etc). This will continue until weapons need to be sold. Military Industrial complex is a thing and it needs blood to lubricate its wheels.

dogma1138 10y ago
There are plenty of other countries which are considerably poorer than the middle east. Circa 2010 Syria wasn't a "bad" place, the average income was greater than that say of India, it was about equal to that of Moldova and the Republic of Macedonia both which are both EU accession candidates. Syrians (and Saudis) who joined the insurgency in Iraq weren't disenfranchised infact they were from the elite, often dropping out of university to go and join the "cause". Osama Bin Laden who founded AQ was born into one of the richest families in the world, had higher education and really had no hard done to him by anyone. Europeans who join ISIS are mostly 2nd and 3rd generation "immigrants", often to mixed families and "fresh converts", they aren't particularly disenfranchised either. Geopolitics and economics do have a role in conflicts everywhere, but the sooner you stop blaming everything on people being poor, oppressed and "western expansionism" the sooner we might actually be able to start working on a solution. Last time I've checked Tibet is effectively poorer than Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia, not to mention the smaller gulf states (and I'm not counting the average which is skewed because of how the wealth is distributed) and it's quite objectively oppressed but I have yet to see Tibetans blowing up restaurants in China.
- internaut 10y ago
  If you read enough old books you'll notice that the authors ascribe a general temperament to each European nation. The word temperament today is not in common use except in animal breeding and the nearest equivalent we have today is the word stereotype, which captures some but not all of the meaning. Here is a formal example of what I mean: http://i.imgur.com/r3bom1c.jpg http://i.imgur.com/r3bom1c.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Qen8lBA.png http://i.imgur.com/Qen8lBA.png While some of this is hilariously old fashioned or historical period specific, it is also interesting just how many traits are consistent enough that we recognize them centuries later. This could be astrology or tea leaf reading, but I think it merits a genuine scientific investigation. It may be anecdotal but far too many people agree the Italians are very fond of chatting, including the Italians. All of this is to say, while it is true that Islam is dominant in countries where periodic religious warfare breaks out, it is possibly Islam is derived from collective temperament and not the other way around. It should definitely be treated seriously as a hypothesis.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

toomanybeersies 10y ago

The Taliban and AQ are two very different problems. The Taliban is a regional force, who don't have international ambitions, they are/were faction in a civil war.