5 ms·

> Here in the US I've heard families earning from $30k to $200k, working jobs from manual labor to white collar, call themselves "middle class." $200K is defin

> Here in the US I've heard families earning from $30k to $200k, working jobs from manual labor to white collar, call themselves "middle class." $200K is definitely considered middle class in the US, especially by the left. For example, both Clinton and Sanders use $250K as their upper limit[0]. As for manual labor vs. white collar - it depends on what context you're talking about, but in terms of sheer economic purchasing power, that doesn't really matter that much. (Incidentally, a lot of white-collar office jobs pay a lot less than many blue-collar positions). There's definitely a class and status aspect to the term 'middle class', but that's much harder to quantify (and is also only loosely correlated with income - hence the existence of the term nouveau riche. As an aside, $200K isn't necessarily as much as people think it is, which is (one of the reasons) why people like Clinton and Sanders consider $250K to be middle class[1]. A lot of people who "make" $200K in gross income are often working jobs which require them to cover a lot of large expenses (such as vehicles/equipment) out-of-pocket, or are running their own businesses[2]. While they might seem rich if you just look at the $200K figure, that doesn't mean they're really rich in any meaningful sense of the word - even if they're frugal, they could still be living quite hand-to-mouth on that amount. [0] http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/18/news/economy/clinton-sanders-middle-class/ http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/18/news/economy/clinton-sanders... [1] There are more cynical, political reasons for doing it as well, but there is a factual justification for it as well. [2] I'm not talking about startups, but genuine 'small businesses', for which they're often the sole proprietor or one of very few partners.

refurb 10y ago
$200K is definitely considered middle class in the US, especially by the Democrats. I think that has more to do with politics than economics. $250K is an income limit that is politically expedient. To call yourself middle class when you're making 5x the media household income is kinda silly. And yes, I know many live in HCOL areas. A lot of people who "make" $200K in gross income are often working jobs which require them to cover a lot of large expenses (such as vehicles/equipment) out-of-pocket, or are running their own businesses[2]. This doesn't make any sense to me. Your gross income is your gross income. Nobody reports what their business revenue is as gross income. You need to take out expenses first.
- gozur88 10y ago
  >To call yourself middle class when you're making 5x the media household income is kinda silly. And yes, I know many live in HCOL areas. Cost of living matters a whole lot, though. You'd have a higher standard of living in Cleveland at $100k than in San Francisco at $250k.
  - jacobolus 10y ago
    > You'd have a higher standard of living in Cleveland at $100k than in San Francisco at $250k. That’s a hyperbolic exaggeration. If you pay for a 2 bedroom apartment, transportation, food (even if the SF person only shops at Whole Foods or wherever), utilities, comparable health insurance, etc., then the SF person on a $250k salary is going to have considerably more left over to spend on whatever else they want.
    - ktRolster 10y ago
      If you pay for a 2 bedroom apartment, transportation, food The price of a two bedroom apartment in SF will get you a 3,000 sq ft house with a quarter acre of land elsewhere.
      - douche 10y ago
        The numbers I've seen here and there for a SF 2-BR would cover the mortgage on a 160 acre farm, plus the financing on new equipment to run it.
      - jacobolus 10y ago
        If you have 2–4 people, a 3000 sq. ft. house is in my opinion worse quality of life than a 1500 sq. ft. flat, because you have double the rooms to clean, for little tangible advantage. If you feel you need the space for a bowling alley / film screening theater / wood shop / large library / child’s playground / art gallery / industrial kitchen / space to host an 80-person party / rooms for 10 guests / ..., in the city you can find all those within walking or easy transit ride distance.

refurb 10y ago

$200K is definitely considered middle class in the US, especially by the Democrats. I think that has more to do with politics than economics. $250K is an income limit that is politically expedient. To call yourself middle class when you're making 5x the media household income is kinda silly. And yes, I know many live in HCOL areas. A lot of people who "make" $200K in gross income are often working jobs which require them to cover a lot of large expenses (such as vehicles/equipment) out-of-pocket, or are running their own businesses[2]. This doesn't make any sense to me. Your gross income is your gross income. Nobody reports what their business revenue is as gross income. You need to take out expenses first.

gozur88 10y ago
>To call yourself middle class when you're making 5x the media household income is kinda silly. And yes, I know many live in HCOL areas. Cost of living matters a whole lot, though. You'd have a higher standard of living in Cleveland at $100k than in San Francisco at $250k.
- jacobolus 10y ago
  > You'd have a higher standard of living in Cleveland at $100k than in San Francisco at $250k. That’s a hyperbolic exaggeration. If you pay for a 2 bedroom apartment, transportation, food (even if the SF person only shops at Whole Foods or wherever), utilities, comparable health insurance, etc., then the SF person on a $250k salary is going to have considerably more left over to spend on whatever else they want.
  - ktRolster 10y ago
    If you pay for a 2 bedroom apartment, transportation, food The price of a two bedroom apartment in SF will get you a 3,000 sq ft house with a quarter acre of land elsewhere.
    - douche 10y ago
      The numbers I've seen here and there for a SF 2-BR would cover the mortgage on a 160 acre farm, plus the financing on new equipment to run it.
    - jacobolus 10y ago
      If you have 2–4 people, a 3000 sq. ft. house is in my opinion worse quality of life than a 1500 sq. ft. flat, because you have double the rooms to clean, for little tangible advantage. If you feel you need the space for a bowling alley / film screening theater / wood shop / large library / child’s playground / art gallery / industrial kitchen / space to host an 80-person party / rooms for 10 guests / ..., in the city you can find all those within walking or easy transit ride distance.