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I think you just don't understand how a cap and trade system works. You should try doing a google search to read up on it. It's confusing at first, but there's

by blaisio 10y ago

I think you just don't understand how a cap and trade system works. You should try doing a google search to read up on it. It's confusing at first, but there's nothing inherently uncontrollable about it. The only reason these scams are allowed to happen is the EPA doesn't have enough manpower to constantly watch over every facility to make sure fuel is actually being produced.

jacquesm 10y ago
I think I understand it just fine, thank you. > The only reason these scams are allowed to happen is the EPA doesn't have enough manpower to constantly watch over every facility to make sure fuel is actually being produced. So, if you don't have that manpower don't set up a scheme like that. Trust but verify, remember?
- blaisio 10y ago
  I mean, in the end it's impossible to completely prevent any scams from occurring. Even if we used a tax based system people could still lie, and we will wouldn't be able to see if they're telling the truth. It's not feasible to constantly check up on everyone. They did verify that the RINs were being produced properly, which is what led to the guy being caught. So I'm not sure what your argument is here. If you understand cap and trade systems, then you know that they aren't inherently gameable (which you just admitted). So are you saying that you think the EPA needs more funding?
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    > So are you saying that you think the EPA needs more funding? They should have at least enough funding that they can catch scammers like this before they cause 10's of millions of $ of damage.
lmm 10y ago
How does producing a bunch of biofuel achieve anything? Why is that something we want to incentivize? If this was about credits for sequestering x tonnes of carbon from the atmosphere then I can see how that should be worth a credit, but I don't see how it makes sense to single out biofuel any more than anything else those crops could have been used for.
- blaisio 10y ago
  Again, I recommend reading up on what cap and trade systems are. The goal isn't to produce biofuel, it's to reduce the amount of oil being used. Using biofuel instead of oil results in the production of less pollution.
  - lmm 10y ago
    But nothing actually ensures that the biofuel is used, or that less oil is used.

by blaisio 10y ago

jacquesm 10y ago

I think I understand it just fine, thank you. > The only reason these scams are allowed to happen is the EPA doesn't have enough manpower to constantly watch over every facility to make sure fuel is actually being produced. So, if you don't have that manpower don't set up a scheme like that. Trust but verify, remember?

blaisio 10y ago
I mean, in the end it's impossible to completely prevent any scams from occurring. Even if we used a tax based system people could still lie, and we will wouldn't be able to see if they're telling the truth. It's not feasible to constantly check up on everyone. They did verify that the RINs were being produced properly, which is what led to the guy being caught. So I'm not sure what your argument is here. If you understand cap and trade systems, then you know that they aren't inherently gameable (which you just admitted). So are you saying that you think the EPA needs more funding?
- jacquesm 10y ago
  > So are you saying that you think the EPA needs more funding? They should have at least enough funding that they can catch scammers like this before they cause 10's of millions of $ of damage.

lmm 10y ago

How does producing a bunch of biofuel achieve anything? Why is that something we want to incentivize? If this was about credits for sequestering x tonnes of carbon from the atmosphere then I can see how that should be worth a credit, but I don't see how it makes sense to single out biofuel any more than anything else those crops could have been used for.

blaisio 10y ago
Again, I recommend reading up on what cap and trade systems are. The goal isn't to produce biofuel, it's to reduce the amount of oil being used. Using biofuel instead of oil results in the production of less pollution.
- lmm 10y ago
  But nothing actually ensures that the biofuel is used, or that less oil is used.