6 ms·

Of course, but shooting attacks have been a major component of terrorism in Europe (Paris, Charlie Hebdo, Brussels Jewish Museum, etc). I have to also point out

Of course, but shooting attacks have been a major component of terrorism in Europe (Paris, Charlie Hebdo, Brussels Jewish Museum, etc). I have to also point out that it's still not clear at this time whether Nice was a terrorist attack. The UK may be better protected against "truck amuck" incidents as we had so many IRA car and truck bombs. Risers and bollards are very common around public spaces (and also, we don't have the luxury of miles of riviera beach front...). For example a ramming attack at Glasgow airport in 2007 was prevented by bollards. As for bombs, I certainly hope someone buying the ingredients in the UK would immediately draw police attention.

hammock 10y ago
Unless the driver was asleep at the wheel and it was all an accident, it's pretty clear Nice was a terrorist attack. The question you're looking for is whether it was an act of Muslim extremism.
- sevenless 10y ago
  As far as I know, we don't know the motivation of the Nice attack, so we can't yet say it was certainly terrorism. It was certainly a deliberate act of mass murder but that does not necessarily mean it was a terrorist attack, which implies a political or religious motivation to terrorize (as opposed to, say, mental illness or general hatefulness). For example most US mass shootings are not considered terrorism. I realize this sounds a bit like hair splitting in the face of a horrible mass murder, but terrorism has different policy implications from other kinds of mass murder, so we should be careful about language.
  - bybjorn 10y ago
    You do not believe the reports that he was shouting "allahu akbar" then? Also, check the latest news on the "cryptic sms's" sent from his phone.
    - sevenless 10y ago
      The information content of "Allah Ackbar" from an Arabic speaker is essentially nil - it's used the same way English speakers use "Oh my god" - but him asking another involved party for "more weapons" via SMS, if true, suggests it was a coordinated attack and most likely terrorism.
  - DominikR 10y ago
    Yeah, I've noticed that Liberals/Socialists nowadays tend to split hairs to relabel terrorists as something else. So it's not a jihadist terror attack but instead the cause is repressed homosexuality or toxic male masculinity. I was speechless when a few days ago Obama said it was hard to "untangle" the true motives of the guy that shot 5 police officers in Dallas even though the attacker himself stated he wanted to kill as many whites and white police officers as possible. It's plain and simple denial, because these things do not fit their political narrative.
    - zuminator 10y ago
      Wanting to kill as many whites and police officers as possible isn't a motive, it's a description. True motives means, what triggered this previously law-abiding man to go off like that?
      - DominikR 10y ago
        The Dallas shooter showed support for several "Black Power Groups" - I'm sure these are not racist like White Power groups are. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/09/us/suspect-in-dallas-attack-had-interest-in-black-power-groups.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/09/us/suspect-in-dallas-attac... Meanwhile people at Black Lives Matter protests chant "Kill cops" and "Pigs In A Blanket, Fry 'Em Like Bacon!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNxoeqf0Ws https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNxoeqf0Ws Hard to untangle what is going on here. > what triggered this previously law-abiding man to go off like that Typical liberal statement, the perpetrator of a crime is the victim. Something triggered him to do it! Remove the triggers and all will be fine.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  > it's pretty clear Nice was a terrorist attack. What was the goal of the 'terrorist' then? In other words, what political aim did he have?
  - interfixus 10y ago
    Hm ... yes, let's see, what possible goal might he have had? What conceivable purpose could indiscriminate mass murder in a major European city serve? I'm certain noone ever attempted such a thing before. Equally certain they didn't claim allegiance to any particular, you know, religion or anything like that. No pattern to see here, move along.
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      > What conceivable purpose could indiscriminate mass murder in a major European city serve? Yes, that's the question. > I'm certain noone ever attempted such a thing before. I'm aware of that. > Equally certain they didn't claim allegiance to any particular, you know, religion or anything like that. I'm aware of that too. Even so, none of that actually answers the question, it's just a bunch of handwaving and suggestion making it seem that you're a really smart person who has figured all this out. So, humor me, what did this guy want? How do you know that's what he wanted? I've been reading quite a bit about this particular incident and so far the only thing that is certain is that this was one very confused individual who had been under treatment for some time (years) and who happened to be very loosely affiliated with Islam, no more than someone who still celebrates Christmas is a Christian. If you're aware of something rather stronger in the evidence department then please let's have it.
      - DanBC 10y ago
        > and who happened to be very loosely affiliated with Islam That's similar to lots of the terrorists who've been caught. They tend to be converts to Islam, or previously not particularly observant before being radicalised.
        10y ago

hammock 10y ago

Unless the driver was asleep at the wheel and it was all an accident, it's pretty clear Nice was a terrorist attack. The question you're looking for is whether it was an act of Muslim extremism.

sevenless 10y ago
As far as I know, we don't know the motivation of the Nice attack, so we can't yet say it was certainly terrorism. It was certainly a deliberate act of mass murder but that does not necessarily mean it was a terrorist attack, which implies a political or religious motivation to terrorize (as opposed to, say, mental illness or general hatefulness). For example most US mass shootings are not considered terrorism. I realize this sounds a bit like hair splitting in the face of a horrible mass murder, but terrorism has different policy implications from other kinds of mass murder, so we should be careful about language.
- bybjorn 10y ago
  You do not believe the reports that he was shouting "allahu akbar" then? Also, check the latest news on the "cryptic sms's" sent from his phone.
  - sevenless 10y ago
    The information content of "Allah Ackbar" from an Arabic speaker is essentially nil - it's used the same way English speakers use "Oh my god" - but him asking another involved party for "more weapons" via SMS, if true, suggests it was a coordinated attack and most likely terrorism.
- DominikR 10y ago
  Yeah, I've noticed that Liberals/Socialists nowadays tend to split hairs to relabel terrorists as something else. So it's not a jihadist terror attack but instead the cause is repressed homosexuality or toxic male masculinity. I was speechless when a few days ago Obama said it was hard to "untangle" the true motives of the guy that shot 5 police officers in Dallas even though the attacker himself stated he wanted to kill as many whites and white police officers as possible. It's plain and simple denial, because these things do not fit their political narrative.
  - zuminator 10y ago
    Wanting to kill as many whites and police officers as possible isn't a motive, it's a description. True motives means, what triggered this previously law-abiding man to go off like that?
    - DominikR 10y ago
      The Dallas shooter showed support for several "Black Power Groups" - I'm sure these are not racist like White Power groups are. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/09/us/suspect-in-dallas-attack-had-interest-in-black-power-groups.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/09/us/suspect-in-dallas-attac... Meanwhile people at Black Lives Matter protests chant "Kill cops" and "Pigs In A Blanket, Fry 'Em Like Bacon!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNxoeqf0Ws https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNxoeqf0Ws Hard to untangle what is going on here. > what triggered this previously law-abiding man to go off like that Typical liberal statement, the perpetrator of a crime is the victim. Something triggered him to do it! Remove the triggers and all will be fine.
jacquesm 10y ago
> it's pretty clear Nice was a terrorist attack. What was the goal of the 'terrorist' then? In other words, what political aim did he have?
- interfixus 10y ago
  Hm ... yes, let's see, what possible goal might he have had? What conceivable purpose could indiscriminate mass murder in a major European city serve? I'm certain noone ever attempted such a thing before. Equally certain they didn't claim allegiance to any particular, you know, religion or anything like that. No pattern to see here, move along.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    > What conceivable purpose could indiscriminate mass murder in a major European city serve? Yes, that's the question. > I'm certain noone ever attempted such a thing before. I'm aware of that. > Equally certain they didn't claim allegiance to any particular, you know, religion or anything like that. I'm aware of that too. Even so, none of that actually answers the question, it's just a bunch of handwaving and suggestion making it seem that you're a really smart person who has figured all this out. So, humor me, what did this guy want? How do you know that's what he wanted? I've been reading quite a bit about this particular incident and so far the only thing that is certain is that this was one very confused individual who had been under treatment for some time (years) and who happened to be very loosely affiliated with Islam, no more than someone who still celebrates Christmas is a Christian. If you're aware of something rather stronger in the evidence department then please let's have it.
    - DanBC 10y ago
      > and who happened to be very loosely affiliated with Islam That's similar to lots of the terrorists who've been caught. They tend to be converts to Islam, or previously not particularly observant before being radicalised.
      - 10y ago