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Ataturk must be rolling over in his grave. It's a damned shame that the coup didn't succeed - Turkey has been one of the few reasonably successful Muslim count

by douche 10y ago

Ataturk must be rolling over in his grave. It's a damned shame that the coup didn't succeed - Turkey has been one of the few reasonably successful Muslim countries at Westernizing, brought about because of the colossal failures of the old Ottoman Empire. Erdogan's backsliding into the same theocratic-tinged islamist government is especially troubling for a NATO member, and one that is slated to join the EU eventually.

iofj 10y ago
Staging a false attack on the state is how Hitler suspended civil liberties in Germany, and we all know what happened next.
- walshemj 10y ago
  You mean the Reichstag fire? The consensus is that it was a lone wolf communist - The Nazis where in a panic on the night.
  - douche 10y ago
    The Germans did attempt to justify the invasion of Poland using a false flag operation[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident
  - HillRat 10y ago
    I would read Hett's analysis of the fire and subsequent investigation; there's excellent reason to think that van der Lubbe was not acting alone -- or perhaps not even involved in setting the fires themselves -- and plenty of circumstantial and physical evidence tying the SA and Goebbels to the fire. And, regardless of who set the fire, the Nazis had planned for the institution of emergency rule upon the first pretext; the key elements of what would become the Reichstag Fire Decree were set out weeks before the fire, as Göring would later acknowledge.
    - walshemj 10y ago
      That's not the conclusion that Ian Kershaw came to.
joesmo 10y ago
I hope that the EU will stop all proceedings on this now that it's crystal clear Turkey cannot be a candidate. You can't have an EU country that can't even govern itself as part of the EU. Turkey is neither free nor stable. It's arguably not even in Europe. If the coup had succeeded, maybe it could eventually have been a country worthy of EU membership, but I'm pretty sure Erdogan is not going to lean back towards liberty after these incidents and make the country even worse. Not to mention the extreme unpopularity of this idea in Europe.
fatihpense 10y ago
Firstly, this wasn't a coup attempt organised by all military, only a fraction. What would a coup solve actually? Does it change people's mind? It is this kind of disrespect to voters which gave rise to popularity of Erdogan in his political life. People are not sheep(sometimes) and they get angry if their choice in polls affected in dirty ways. For the most of the people in Turkey, this wasn't about the Erdogan. This coup attempt was about democracy and freedom. Most people doesn't think everything is roses, they only think coup would be the worst. One more thing I noticed is that some people in the world seems that they don't have any disgust for a coup. Turkey has a long history of coups and elder people have told many stories about them. I think that brings some education.

by douche 10y ago

iofj 10y ago

Staging a false attack on the state is how Hitler suspended civil liberties in Germany, and we all know what happened next.

walshemj 10y ago
You mean the Reichstag fire? The consensus is that it was a lone wolf communist - The Nazis where in a panic on the night.
- douche 10y ago
  The Germans did attempt to justify the invasion of Poland using a false flag operation[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident
- HillRat 10y ago
  I would read Hett's analysis of the fire and subsequent investigation; there's excellent reason to think that van der Lubbe was not acting alone -- or perhaps not even involved in setting the fires themselves -- and plenty of circumstantial and physical evidence tying the SA and Goebbels to the fire. And, regardless of who set the fire, the Nazis had planned for the institution of emergency rule upon the first pretext; the key elements of what would become the Reichstag Fire Decree were set out weeks before the fire, as Göring would later acknowledge.
  - walshemj 10y ago
    That's not the conclusion that Ian Kershaw came to.

joesmo 10y ago

I hope that the EU will stop all proceedings on this now that it's crystal clear Turkey cannot be a candidate. You can't have an EU country that can't even govern itself as part of the EU. Turkey is neither free nor stable. It's arguably not even in Europe. If the coup had succeeded, maybe it could eventually have been a country worthy of EU membership, but I'm pretty sure Erdogan is not going to lean back towards liberty after these incidents and make the country even worse. Not to mention the extreme unpopularity of this idea in Europe.

fatihpense 10y ago

Firstly, this wasn't a coup attempt organised by all military, only a fraction. What would a coup solve actually? Does it change people's mind? It is this kind of disrespect to voters which gave rise to popularity of Erdogan in his political life. People are not sheep(sometimes) and they get angry if their choice in polls affected in dirty ways. For the most of the people in Turkey, this wasn't about the Erdogan. This coup attempt was about democracy and freedom. Most people doesn't think everything is roses, they only think coup would be the worst. One more thing I noticed is that some people in the world seems that they don't have any disgust for a coup. Turkey has a long history of coups and elder people have told many stories about them. I think that brings some education.