7 ms·

Not mentioned in article: - President has successfully used a referendum to grant himself third term powers, if next year's election goes his way (likely) - L

by pizza 10y ago

Not mentioned in article: - President has successfully used a referendum to grant himself third term powers, if next year's election goes his way (likely) - Lots of surveillance (skype/whatsapp eavesdropping) by govt via telecom compliance - President has lots of stock in telecoms

henrygrew 10y ago
True, a silent dictatorship and freedom of speech is not allowed
- kiba 10y ago
  Did brief search about said referendum. Saw that 98% of voters approve it. Sounds like ballot stuffing.
  - max_ 10y ago
    Disclosure: East African Here. > Saw that 98% of voters approve it. That is true. And it wasn't ballot staffing. The Rwandese Love their President, he is largely responsible for the recovering Rwanda from its 1994 Genocide. All Rwandanse I personally know want him to remain president for as long as he can.
    - yxhuvud 10y ago
      For what it is worth, it is not unheard of long term leaders in western countries. It was not uncommon during the great leaps of improvement. You may want to look up Erlander or Kekkonen who each served for 30+ years in Sweden and Finland.
      - ZenoArrow 10y ago
        Yeah, to be honest aside from the US I can't think of any developed countries that set limits on how many terms a political leader can stay in office. Part of me thinks it could be a good thing to adopt more broadly, though two terms seems a little too restrictive IMO.
        happyslobro 10y ago
        I have to say that the idea of an arbitrary limit on terms seems like a bad hack to fix a dysfunctional democracy. It's at least as likely, if not more so, to eliminate a good leader and clear the way for one of several bad leaders to get in. In a working democracy, people would not put up with a bad leader for more than the remainder of a term, after they show their true colours. In a highly functional democracy, a visionary leader should be able to initiate multi-generation projects and see them through to completion. Is this a scheme to prevent the members of a two party system from coalescing into a single party?
        ZenoArrow 10y ago
        Yes, it's a safety valve to guard against dysfunctional democracies. It's a compromise, and yes you will limit the service of both good and bad leaders, but that doesn't make the compromise any less valid. Many people fear change, and don't like to admit they made a mistake, and base a lot of their vote on personality rather than achievement, and as a result of these factors people can keep voting for someone even if they do a poor or mediocre job. I personally believe the best form of democracy would be something along the lines of a liquid democracy, coupled with a constitution that protected the rights of everyone (to ensure those with minority viewpoints would always be entitled to a base level of respect). If you're interested in finding out about liquid democracy, this video provides a good introduction: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fg0_Vhldz-8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fg0_Vhldz-8
        GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
        Why do you assume that there's at most one good leader?
        happyslobro 10y ago
        Because I'm an incorrigible optimist? No but seriously, do you have any anecdotes regarding an election where a difficult choice had to be made between multiple good (from the perspective of a large majority) candidates? Because I don't (Canadian, in my 30s).
  - pizza 10y ago
    It might look like it, but the referendum would have gone the same way if not. Kagame's administration saw with it the largest drop in child mortality in recorded history (source: private conversation), rapid development, stability, expanded rights and political visibility of women.. and, as far as I've heard no one knows who would run the country as stably if it weren't Kagame.
aorth 10y ago
Yeah, and the Rwandan government was likely a customer of Hacking Team. Many documents in the Hacking Team email leak mention Rwanda: https://search.wikileaks.org/?query=Rwanda&exact_phrase=&any_of=&exclude_words=&document_date_start=&document_date_end=&released_date_start=&released_date_end=&publication_type%5B%5D=36&publication_type%5B%5D=37&new_search=False&order_by=most_relevant#results https://search.wikileaks.org/?query=Rwanda&exact_phrase=&any...
donretag 10y ago
Paul Kagame's anti-corruption policies are impressive. You can really see how much society can change when funds flow to the proper channels. I have traveled through ten sub-Saharan countries and Rwanda does stick out. While many countries, especially in East Africa, have terrible infrastructure, Rwanda is "civilized". Working traffic lights, street lights even on minor roads in towns, decent roads. It was the only country in East Africa where I was able to easily find a proper black middle class. I did ask locals why this is the case, and they all point to the anti-corruption initiative. It is true that much money comes from the UN post-genocide and from methane gas, but this money does make it's way to society. That said, I have a far better time in Mugabe's Zimbabwe and Zuma's South Africa. :) Corruption on that level is so blatant and destructive.
- roel_v 10y ago
  Serious q, I've never been in Africa: what is there to do in Zim to have a good time? Did you go on safari or somerhing similar, or are there off-the-beaten-track things to do (without knowing locals) that are relatively safe to do?
  - donretag 10y ago
    I could talk a lot about Africa. Loved it. Everything is off the beaten path, which is why I loved it. Outside of the known spots (Egypt and the northern countries, South Africa), there is no mass tourism. No bus loads of tourists that start taking pictures as soon as they step off. Zim was unique. At that point, I already spent almost two months in East Africa (Uganda, Rwanda, Tanzania, Malawi), and my entrance (into Harare) was an eye-opener. A saw white people. Not tourists or the occasional white person, but actual residents. Lots of them. They had nice cars and went into nice stores. Good luck finding stores in East Africa. Technically, my first stop in Zim was the Chimanimani Mountains. Lovely day hike. But it was on the border with Mozambique (I only traveled through Moz) so it felt the same. Harare was a nice enough capital. I was amazed that the national museum was actually selling the art it was showing. Amazing pieces for great prices. If I was not traveling for months (and I actually had a home), I would have purchased some art. Amazing sculptures. Zim had the best sculptures, Malawi the best wood cravers. Went to a jazz club, more first show in Africa. I did not do any safaris in Zim (did them in Uganda, Tanzania and Namibia), but I went to a place called Antelope Park. I had mixed feelings about it. The great Zim ruins were interesting because it is the oldest manmade structure in sub-Saharan Africa. Nothing else of its kind on the entire southern half of Africa. Took an overnight train from Bulawayo to Vic Falls. Slow. Decripit. Beer was $1 (cheaper than a supermarket) and we finished their entire stock. Plus our liquor. They called ahead to get more at another stop and we finished that as well. Fun fun times. Victoria Falls of course was amazing. I highly suggest going to Africa for vacation. I dream about going back. Was more of a fan of Southern Africa over East Africa. Overall I felt safe in Zimbabwe. Better than Cape Town and forget about Jo'burg.

by pizza 10y ago

henrygrew 10y ago

True, a silent dictatorship and freedom of speech is not allowed

kiba 10y ago
Did brief search about said referendum. Saw that 98% of voters approve it. Sounds like ballot stuffing.
- max_ 10y ago
  Disclosure: East African Here. > Saw that 98% of voters approve it. That is true. And it wasn't ballot staffing. The Rwandese Love their President, he is largely responsible for the recovering Rwanda from its 1994 Genocide. All Rwandanse I personally know want him to remain president for as long as he can.
  - yxhuvud 10y ago
    For what it is worth, it is not unheard of long term leaders in western countries. It was not uncommon during the great leaps of improvement. You may want to look up Erlander or Kekkonen who each served for 30+ years in Sweden and Finland.
    - ZenoArrow 10y ago
      Yeah, to be honest aside from the US I can't think of any developed countries that set limits on how many terms a political leader can stay in office. Part of me thinks it could be a good thing to adopt more broadly, though two terms seems a little too restrictive IMO.
      - happyslobro 10y ago
        I have to say that the idea of an arbitrary limit on terms seems like a bad hack to fix a dysfunctional democracy. It's at least as likely, if not more so, to eliminate a good leader and clear the way for one of several bad leaders to get in. In a working democracy, people would not put up with a bad leader for more than the remainder of a term, after they show their true colours. In a highly functional democracy, a visionary leader should be able to initiate multi-generation projects and see them through to completion. Is this a scheme to prevent the members of a two party system from coalescing into a single party?
        ZenoArrow 10y ago
        Yes, it's a safety valve to guard against dysfunctional democracies. It's a compromise, and yes you will limit the service of both good and bad leaders, but that doesn't make the compromise any less valid. Many people fear change, and don't like to admit they made a mistake, and base a lot of their vote on personality rather than achievement, and as a result of these factors people can keep voting for someone even if they do a poor or mediocre job. I personally believe the best form of democracy would be something along the lines of a liquid democracy, coupled with a constitution that protected the rights of everyone (to ensure those with minority viewpoints would always be entitled to a base level of respect). If you're interested in finding out about liquid democracy, this video provides a good introduction: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fg0_Vhldz-8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fg0_Vhldz-8
        GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
        Why do you assume that there's at most one good leader?
        happyslobro 10y ago
        Because I'm an incorrigible optimist? No but seriously, do you have any anecdotes regarding an election where a difficult choice had to be made between multiple good (from the perspective of a large majority) candidates? Because I don't (Canadian, in my 30s).
- pizza 10y ago
  It might look like it, but the referendum would have gone the same way if not. Kagame's administration saw with it the largest drop in child mortality in recorded history (source: private conversation), rapid development, stability, expanded rights and political visibility of women.. and, as far as I've heard no one knows who would run the country as stably if it weren't Kagame.

aorth 10y ago

Yeah, and the Rwandan government was likely a customer of Hacking Team. Many documents in the Hacking Team email leak mention Rwanda: https://search.wikileaks.org/?query=Rwanda&exact_phrase=&any_of=&exclude_words=&document_date_start=&document_date_end=&released_date_start=&released_date_end=&publication_type%5B%5D=36&publication_type%5B%5D=37&new_search=False&order_by=most_relevant#results https://search.wikileaks.org/?query=Rwanda&exact_phrase=&any...

donretag 10y ago

Paul Kagame's anti-corruption policies are impressive. You can really see how much society can change when funds flow to the proper channels. I have traveled through ten sub-Saharan countries and Rwanda does stick out. While many countries, especially in East Africa, have terrible infrastructure, Rwanda is "civilized". Working traffic lights, street lights even on minor roads in towns, decent roads. It was the only country in East Africa where I was able to easily find a proper black middle class. I did ask locals why this is the case, and they all point to the anti-corruption initiative. It is true that much money comes from the UN post-genocide and from methane gas, but this money does make it's way to society. That said, I have a far better time in Mugabe's Zimbabwe and Zuma's South Africa. :) Corruption on that level is so blatant and destructive.

roel_v 10y ago
Serious q, I've never been in Africa: what is there to do in Zim to have a good time? Did you go on safari or somerhing similar, or are there off-the-beaten-track things to do (without knowing locals) that are relatively safe to do?
- donretag 10y ago
  I could talk a lot about Africa. Loved it. Everything is off the beaten path, which is why I loved it. Outside of the known spots (Egypt and the northern countries, South Africa), there is no mass tourism. No bus loads of tourists that start taking pictures as soon as they step off. Zim was unique. At that point, I already spent almost two months in East Africa (Uganda, Rwanda, Tanzania, Malawi), and my entrance (into Harare) was an eye-opener. A saw white people. Not tourists or the occasional white person, but actual residents. Lots of them. They had nice cars and went into nice stores. Good luck finding stores in East Africa. Technically, my first stop in Zim was the Chimanimani Mountains. Lovely day hike. But it was on the border with Mozambique (I only traveled through Moz) so it felt the same. Harare was a nice enough capital. I was amazed that the national museum was actually selling the art it was showing. Amazing pieces for great prices. If I was not traveling for months (and I actually had a home), I would have purchased some art. Amazing sculptures. Zim had the best sculptures, Malawi the best wood cravers. Went to a jazz club, more first show in Africa. I did not do any safaris in Zim (did them in Uganda, Tanzania and Namibia), but I went to a place called Antelope Park. I had mixed feelings about it. The great Zim ruins were interesting because it is the oldest manmade structure in sub-Saharan Africa. Nothing else of its kind on the entire southern half of Africa. Took an overnight train from Bulawayo to Vic Falls. Slow. Decripit. Beer was $1 (cheaper than a supermarket) and we finished their entire stock. Plus our liquor. They called ahead to get more at another stop and we finished that as well. Fun fun times. Victoria Falls of course was amazing. I highly suggest going to Africa for vacation. I dream about going back. Was more of a fan of Southern Africa over East Africa. Overall I felt safe in Zimbabwe. Better than Cape Town and forget about Jo'burg.