4 ms·

I think it's fairly obvious that the smaller search engines inherit their results from the larger ones, so they're not the ones applying the biases or censorshi

I think it's fairly obvious that the smaller search engines inherit their results from the larger ones, so they're not the ones applying the biases or censorship.

LeifCarrotson 10y ago
Fairly obvious to HN readership, but not to the general public or to lawmakers, judges, and juries.
sp332 10y ago
DDG has many sources of information, and applies its own layer of spam filtering as well, so they are not at the mercy of Yahoo's censored data.
- vacri 10y ago
  How is DDG meant to detect that there are 'missing' bits of information from the returned results, and then 'insert' the missing stuff? Do we really expect a secondary search engine to hit all the returned search result websites and grep them for the terms, as Stallman suggested? How long would it take people to abandon DDG if they implemented that, given that it would make search intolerably long?
  - cynix 10y ago
    This was explained in the article. If some results for keywords "A B C D" do not exist in the results for keywords "A B C", then you know these results have been censored.
    - tagawa 10y ago
      That doesn't seem like a practical solution. One keyword can change the expected search results dramatically, for example: "red ford mustang" and "red ford mustang toy", "wall street 2015" and "wall street 2015 protest", "photos of jam" and "photos of jam jars", etc. In some cases there may be overlap but a lack of it doesn't necessarily indicate censorship.
    - NotSammyHagar 10y ago
      Web search isn't that simple. The search engine does more sophisticated work than that. For example, if no one ever clicks on abcd results, it wont show them when you search for abc.
- gcb0 10y ago
  OK i will be that guy: wrong! first, ddg has only a single source of data. and it's Microsoft bing. yahoo doesn't have any search and Google gave the middle finger to ddg. ddg links to many sources. if you add !g you go to Google. if you add !i you go to Bing images. etc. but any search on ddg site is only Bing and nothing else. lastly, and ironically, Yahoo is the only one still fighting for freedom online. i think it's one of the perks of being an underdog with lots of money. see how recently they were the first to publish several secret government data requests.
  - bestnameever 10y ago
    >first, ddg has only a single source of data. and it's Microsoft bing. yahoo doesn't have any search Duckduckgo has a partnership with Yahoo https://duck.co/help/company/yahoo-partnership https://duck.co/help/company/yahoo-partnership Wikipedia also states that DuckDuckGo returns search results using data from Yahoo among other providers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo Edit: You can view all of DuckDuckGo's sources right here. Yahoo is included. https://duck.co/help/results/sources https://duck.co/help/results/sources
    - azernik 10y ago
      Yahoo does not run its own search engine anymore; the results at search.yahoo.com are served up by Bing.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8174763.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8174763.stm]
      - bestnameever 10y ago
        Interesting. You got me googling and it seems the bing thing is not exclusive. Yahoo apparently has a partnership with google as well. http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/20/9577519/yahoo-google-search-deal http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/20/9577519/yahoo-google-sear...
na85 10y ago
Stallman doesn't seem to know these things, though. Perhaps he's so far removed from society as a result of his arcane computing choices that he's been unable to remain cognizant of the way the Internet works now?
- arbiterOfSorrow 10y ago
  Oh fugg! He no use Intarnart Explorerer 150.2.34!!! OH NOES, THINK OF THE SECURIDITY EXPLOITATION AND SO UNTECHNOLOGICAL. Everyone knows higher numbers is better every always!
kennell 10y ago
DDG uses it's own crawler and algorithms
greglindahl 10y ago
There have been smaller search engines that didn't inherit their results from the larger ones... even privacy-sensitive smaller search engines with their own index. Alas, that ship sailed, uh, sank.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

I think it's fairly obvious that the smaller search engines inherit their results from the larger ones, so they're not the ones applying the biases or censorship.

LeifCarrotson 10y ago

Fairly obvious to HN readership, but not to the general public or to lawmakers, judges, and juries.

sp332 10y ago

DDG has many sources of information, and applies its own layer of spam filtering as well, so they are not at the mercy of Yahoo's censored data.

vacri 10y ago
How is DDG meant to detect that there are 'missing' bits of information from the returned results, and then 'insert' the missing stuff? Do we really expect a secondary search engine to hit all the returned search result websites and grep them for the terms, as Stallman suggested? How long would it take people to abandon DDG if they implemented that, given that it would make search intolerably long?
- cynix 10y ago
  This was explained in the article. If some results for keywords "A B C D" do not exist in the results for keywords "A B C", then you know these results have been censored.
  - tagawa 10y ago
    That doesn't seem like a practical solution. One keyword can change the expected search results dramatically, for example: "red ford mustang" and "red ford mustang toy", "wall street 2015" and "wall street 2015 protest", "photos of jam" and "photos of jam jars", etc. In some cases there may be overlap but a lack of it doesn't necessarily indicate censorship.
  - NotSammyHagar 10y ago
    Web search isn't that simple. The search engine does more sophisticated work than that. For example, if no one ever clicks on abcd results, it wont show them when you search for abc.
gcb0 10y ago
OK i will be that guy: wrong! first, ddg has only a single source of data. and it's Microsoft bing. yahoo doesn't have any search and Google gave the middle finger to ddg. ddg links to many sources. if you add !g you go to Google. if you add !i you go to Bing images. etc. but any search on ddg site is only Bing and nothing else. lastly, and ironically, Yahoo is the only one still fighting for freedom online. i think it's one of the perks of being an underdog with lots of money. see how recently they were the first to publish several secret government data requests.
- bestnameever 10y ago
  >first, ddg has only a single source of data. and it's Microsoft bing. yahoo doesn't have any search Duckduckgo has a partnership with Yahoo https://duck.co/help/company/yahoo-partnership https://duck.co/help/company/yahoo-partnership Wikipedia also states that DuckDuckGo returns search results using data from Yahoo among other providers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo Edit: You can view all of DuckDuckGo's sources right here. Yahoo is included. https://duck.co/help/results/sources https://duck.co/help/results/sources
  - azernik 10y ago
    Yahoo does not run its own search engine anymore; the results at search.yahoo.com are served up by Bing.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8174763.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8174763.stm]
    - bestnameever 10y ago
      Interesting. You got me googling and it seems the bing thing is not exclusive. Yahoo apparently has a partnership with google as well. http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/20/9577519/yahoo-google-search-deal http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/20/9577519/yahoo-google-sear...

na85 10y ago

Stallman doesn't seem to know these things, though. Perhaps he's so far removed from society as a result of his arcane computing choices that he's been unable to remain cognizant of the way the Internet works now?

arbiterOfSorrow 10y ago
Oh fugg! He no use Intarnart Explorerer 150.2.34!!! OH NOES, THINK OF THE SECURIDITY EXPLOITATION AND SO UNTECHNOLOGICAL. Everyone knows higher numbers is better every always!

kennell 10y ago

DDG uses it's own crawler and algorithms

greglindahl 10y ago

There have been smaller search engines that didn't inherit their results from the larger ones... even privacy-sensitive smaller search engines with their own index. Alas, that ship sailed, uh, sank.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]