5 ms·
Genocide and Jedi: Why the Sith may be Right
- ryanelkins 17y agoI thought this was a useful reminder that there are always 2 sides to every coin. It is useful to understand your opponent's motivation as people are rarely motivated by simply "being evil".
- billswift 17y ago"Your enemy is never a villain in his own eyes. Keep this in mind; it may offer a way to make him your friend." Lazarus Long
- pmichaud 17y agoSurprisingly poignant.
- brazzy 17y agoSurprisingly ignorant about what the word "Genocide" means. The Sith were not a people. Calling their prosecution "genocide" is like calling the death penalty in the USA a "genocide against murderers".
- yumraj 17y agoWell, first of all I'll take offense to The Sith were not a people. Who gave you the right to decide who is people and who is vermin (or whatever you mean by that statement). Secondly, who gives you the right to decide who lives and who dies. That is a very slippery slope and similar arguments have been used since as long as humans have been on this planet to prosecute and terminate whoever didn't agree with the majority. Edit: According to some replies below I seem to have misunderstood the above objection as the claim is that Sith were not "a people" as in were not a group/race/etc. but more like 1-2 persons who were terminated. If that is the case, I formally withdraw my above objection, else it still stands.
- tome 17y ago"a people", not "people". There's an important difference!
- benologist 17y agoPretty sure I remember reading or seeing that there's only ever two Sith at any given time.... that's not even mass-murder let alone genocide?
- rev087 17y agoAs chops pointed out, that was only true during the Rule of Two. Before that, there was the Sith Empire.
- astine 17y agobrazzy is using definition 3: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/people http://www.thefreedictionary.com/people
- dwwoelfel 17y agoI intended to write a comment with an explanation of how genocide can't be committed against a group formed by a shared ideology. I was going to illustrate my explanation by pointing to the extermination of Nazism. However, according to the definition on Wikipedia, genocide includes the destruction of, or the attempt to destroy, a national or religious group. The Sith certainly fit within that definition. So it turns out that the Allies committed genocide when they wiped out Nazism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide
- javert 17y agoSo it turns out that the Allies committed genocide when they wiped out Nazism. No. The Allies did not commit mass murder (genocide) of Nazis. The Allies put Nazi high command on trial and basically let everyone else off the hook. Even if you think Nuremburg was a show trial, what happened was very far from genocide.
- dwwoelfel 17y agoAccording to the definition, genocide is not mass murder. It is merely destruction. Your comment seems to imply that you think that I disapprove of the destruction of Nazism. Let me be clear: I think Nazism is evil and I'm glad it was destroyed. My comment was only pointing out that the destruction of Nazism was genocide by definition.
- klipt 17y agoBy that definition, writing a book to push the view that Scientology is bunk would be attempted genocide. Seems too broad a definition to be useful.
- dnsworks 17y agoNot even during the bombing of dresden?
- chops 17y agoFrom Wookieepedia: The Sith Order was a sect of Force-sensitives who utilized the dark side of the Force. The term "Sith" originally referred to a species of alien native to the planets Korriban and Ziost, who were later enslaved and ruled by exiled Dark Jedi from the Galactic Republic...Following centuries of interbreeding and mixing of cultures between the aliens and the exiles, the Sith would no longer be identified by their race, but by their dedication to the ancient Sith philosophy. Furthermore, before Darth Bane (existing something like 1000 years before the destruction of the Death Star), who instituted the Rule of Two, there were many Sith running around (somewhere around 20,000 and even after the Rule of Two, many Sith Lords took other apprentices in secret). So there weren't always only a Sith Master and a Sith Apprentice.
- nnutter 17y agoNot knowing much about the story I really enjoyed reading this article. I had assumed the Sith were just about power-hungry evil villains.
- bad_user 17y agoActually, while watching Star Wars ... I always thought that there was a mismatch between the Dark Side and pure evil ... are emotions (love, hate, agony, fear) evil? ... well putting aside the Emperor/Darth Vader duo building an empire and a big-ass spherical ship that could destroy planets, which was also a familiar story since at that time I was learning about the Roman empire in school, which went from monarchy to republic which then was subverted :)
- sliverstorm 17y ago> are emotions (love, hate, agony, fear) evil? I am not a Star Wars guru, but I always took it as allowing your emotions to control you led you to do evil deeds and become evil. After all, a purely emotional being will be selfish, vengeful, and a whole host of other negative things. Love, anger, hate and fear are selected in the movies because they are typically the most powerful emotions, and the most capable of consuming you and causing you to act rashly and out of character. The Jedi went to the extremes in their personal beliefs (avoiding love and anger etc) to avoid the 'slippery slope' downwards. This is, of course, just my take on the matter.
- bad_user 17y agoYeah, but isn't the other extreme (cold-blooded, heart of stone) just as dangerous or even more so? What's stopping us from killing our neighbors even when instincts of self-preservation kick in? I mean, while watching documentaries on serial-murderers, it's always baffling noticing how disconnected with their victims or other human beings they are or how little regret they have. I think moral standards are highly interconnected with feelings, and that's why it seemed weird to me.
- deleted 17y ago
- zavulon 17y agoThere is a great sci-fi/fantasy series of novels I can recommend if you're interested in this topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Watch_%28Russian_novel%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Watch_%28Russian_novel%29 In the second book (Day Watch), the story is continued from the point of view of the "bad guys" from the first book, and the reader slowly understands that it's not simple good/evil, all characters have their own complex emotions and motivations. Warning however - skip the movie, it really really sucked.
- kilian 17y agoSure, It takes a person called zavulon to defend the bad guys ;) The Watch series comes highly recommended though. Very fascinating series, interesting concepts, nice writing style. (also, the movies are o.k. as well. They get much better when you watch them a second time, as you see a whole lot more clues)
- zavulon 17y agoHa! I didn't even realize the connection when I was posting this, that's awesome
- vaksel 17y agoNight watch is a decent series, but I found his "Deep" series more entertaining....maybe because it has to do more with hackers and virtual reality. No idea if it got translated to english.
- shadowsun7 17y agoBut isn't that true for all of us? We are all born wild, and unrestrained, and emotive. And as we grow we're taught to control our urges, to be more responsible, to practice restraint, and patience, and understanding. And as surely as we're taught to control our carnal selves, so the Jedi are taught to kill ... (At this point I stop writing because I realize that I'm now attempting to justify genocide). Damn. This guy is good.
- sp332 17y agoIt's not genocide. It's based on a conscious religious decision, not innate genetics.
- scott_s 17y agogen·o·cide /ˈdʒɛnəˌsaɪd/ –noun the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/genocide http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/genocide
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- sp332 17y agoI had thought of "geno-" as genetics, but Latin gēns can mean tribe or clan.
- sharpn 17y agoA Leo Strauss-style variation of the argument is here: http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2005/05/the_public_choi.html http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2005/05...
- mjhnghfh 17y agoStep away from the computer. Go outside Look at the sky Breathe in the air. Realize this is not real ......
- ryanelkins 17y agoNo one is saying it IS real. What's wrong with using fiction to explore facets of reality? It's an idea that the entire category of "the arts" is based upon.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- nova 17y agoSo, Shadows and Vorlons?
- chops 17y ago"If you seek to aid everyone that suffers in the galaxy, you will only weaken yourself ... and weaken them. It is the internal struggles, when fought and won on their own, that yield the strongest rewards. If you care for others, then dispense with pity and sacrifice and recognize the value in letting them fight their own battles." ―Darth Traya Sounds like a philosophy I can get behind. It's just unfortunate that behind all that, the Sith will force-choke someone to death for disagreeing with them. But there are many aspects of the Sith philosophy that are appealing, especially to startup founders: particularly that of passion, without which, we wouldn't have too many startups. And Sith are at least allowed to love, unlike Jedi (though, I guess love could be a subset of passion).
- ryanelkins 17y agoYou might like Ayn Rand's Objectivism. She wrote The Virtue of Selfishness, among other fiction (most notably, Atlas Shrugged). To your other point - perhaps even among Sith lords there are good ones and bad ones? No need to paint everyone in a faction the same shade.
- philwelch 17y agoIt's funny that you mention Ayn Rand, because (to be perfectly blunt) she's kind of a watered down Nietzsche. And the Sith in Knights of the Old Republic (the sequel to which chops was quoting) were very Nietzschean.