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The EU is undemocratic. The EU constitution was rejected by national referenda in two countries, France and the Netherlands. A few others had pledged to hold

The EU is undemocratic. The EU constitution was rejected by national referenda in two countries, France and the Netherlands. A few others had pledged to hold their own, the UK for example. When it was rejected the constitution was renamed into the Lisbon Treaty and then was voted on again. Now most countries decided to not ask the public but just sign it anyway. Ireland managed to hold a referendum, which rejected it. They were then forced to vote again to get the correct answer. Now the constitution is in place despite it being rejected in three national referenda. A giant "fuck you" to democracy.

j-pb 10y ago
Democracy means the majority vote wins. Clearly the majority wanted a european constitution. I live in the Netherlands so I'm sorry to say this, but they hold way to much power in the eu. Their population is ridiculously tiny and they only have so much money because they act as a soft tax haven. These referendums should be held EU wide and decided upon based on a total count of all votes from all eu members, where each person holds one vote. Not by asking every state individually and then having a all or nothing ruling. Then it would be truly democratic.
- J_Darnley 10y ago
  Yes, the referenda should be held EU wide (I doubt the EU would ever allow something as low class as a popular vote) but that is not what the rules said at the time. It needed to be ratified by each country. It wasn't so the bureaucrats decided to ignore their own rules, rename it, and say "this is totally not the constitution". Oh and both remove that pesky need for unanimity agreement among the nations. Further, having an EU wide referendum would require acknowledging that the EU is the supreme governing body in Europe and that all national parliaments are subservient to it. The nations are not ready for that yet and the EU elite know it.
  - rbanffy 10y ago
    > something as low class as a popular vote you may consider the Brexit was democratic. In a sense, it was, but it was also one of the most stupid collective acts I ever witnessed. Most people who voted didn't understand what they were actually voting for or against. Welcome to the rule of the uninformed. We elect people so they can make informed decisions for us. Asking an imbecile about something extremely complicated is not helpful. Asking millions of them is equally useless.

j-pb 10y ago

Democracy means the majority vote wins. Clearly the majority wanted a european constitution. I live in the Netherlands so I'm sorry to say this, but they hold way to much power in the eu. Their population is ridiculously tiny and they only have so much money because they act as a soft tax haven. These referendums should be held EU wide and decided upon based on a total count of all votes from all eu members, where each person holds one vote. Not by asking every state individually and then having a all or nothing ruling. Then it would be truly democratic.

J_Darnley 10y ago
Yes, the referenda should be held EU wide (I doubt the EU would ever allow something as low class as a popular vote) but that is not what the rules said at the time. It needed to be ratified by each country. It wasn't so the bureaucrats decided to ignore their own rules, rename it, and say "this is totally not the constitution". Oh and both remove that pesky need for unanimity agreement among the nations. Further, having an EU wide referendum would require acknowledging that the EU is the supreme governing body in Europe and that all national parliaments are subservient to it. The nations are not ready for that yet and the EU elite know it.
- rbanffy 10y ago
  > something as low class as a popular vote you may consider the Brexit was democratic. In a sense, it was, but it was also one of the most stupid collective acts I ever witnessed. Most people who voted didn't understand what they were actually voting for or against. Welcome to the rule of the uninformed. We elect people so they can make informed decisions for us. Asking an imbecile about something extremely complicated is not helpful. Asking millions of them is equally useless.