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If you are passing laws saying that girls are required to show their hair in school, and compromise their family moral values, as a mandatory display if secul

by tamana 10y ago

If you are passing laws saying that girls are required to show their hair in school, and compromise their family moral values, as a mandatory display if secularism, you have gone to far in creating a bizarre new state religion. Just because something is preferred by a subpopulation's religion and culture, doesn't meant it is a proselytic threat to the freedom and safety of others. The French heafscarf law is populist demagoguery that threatens the integrity of the French Constitutional principles, and is near-universally condemned as bad law by legal scholars

yodsanklai 10y ago
It's not really the thread for this kind of debate, but I feel compelled to reply :) > If you are passing laws saying that girls are required to show their hair in school That's not what the law is about. It bans religious signs in public schools. It's not specifically about muslims covering their hair. I can't speak for all the French, but I think it's fair to say that overall we like religion to stay in the private field. Little anecdote here. When I was in high-school (25 years ago), some American mormons offered to visit our English class to teach English. Our teacher agreed on the condition that they don't wear their uniforms, and don't mention any religious topic. They declined. Just to say that the laws we are discussing here go far beyond "populist demagoguery" or xenophobia and maybe it's misunderstanding French culture to think it is. > and is near-universally condemned as bad law by legal scholars That sounds like an argument of authority. I don't know what law scholars say but I think a country should be able to legislate on the place of religion in public schools, and the way it has been done seem pretty fair to me. When I was school, there were about 10% of north african immigrants in my classes (most of them muslims) and never the headscarf had been an issue. Back then, you actually didn't see any headscarfs in street, except maybe for older muslim ladies. I'm not sure what has changed since then but it has became commonplace (and as an atheist, I'm pretty sad about this).

by tamana 10y ago

yodsanklai 10y ago

It's not really the thread for this kind of debate, but I feel compelled to reply :) > If you are passing laws saying that girls are required to show their hair in school That's not what the law is about. It bans religious signs in public schools. It's not specifically about muslims covering their hair. I can't speak for all the French, but I think it's fair to say that overall we like religion to stay in the private field. Little anecdote here. When I was in high-school (25 years ago), some American mormons offered to visit our English class to teach English. Our teacher agreed on the condition that they don't wear their uniforms, and don't mention any religious topic. They declined. Just to say that the laws we are discussing here go far beyond "populist demagoguery" or xenophobia and maybe it's misunderstanding French culture to think it is. > and is near-universally condemned as bad law by legal scholars That sounds like an argument of authority. I don't know what law scholars say but I think a country should be able to legislate on the place of religion in public schools, and the way it has been done seem pretty fair to me. When I was school, there were about 10% of north african immigrants in my classes (most of them muslims) and never the headscarf had been an issue. Back then, you actually didn't see any headscarfs in street, except maybe for older muslim ladies. I'm not sure what has changed since then but it has became commonplace (and as an atheist, I'm pretty sad about this).