4 ms·

News flash: Those in power and relying on laws, rules and democracy think it's a good idea it remains. Well it's completely obvious they would have this stance

by bArray 10y ago

News flash: Those in power and relying on laws, rules and democracy think it's a good idea it remains. Well it's completely obvious they would have this stance. I don't think they've really anything to add. Hopefully things stabilise one way or another over there, innocent people getting shot helps nobody. What's interesting though is whether this instability will affect Turkey's chances for a seat in the EU. I would really like to see a Muslim Country in the EU but at this rate their chances seem to be lessening.

back_beyond 10y ago
Why would you like to see a Muslim country in the EU? Even without Turkey, we are trending in this direction.
- bArray 10y ago
  Good question. Currently it's an echo chamber of similar minded Countries. I think in order for the EU to grow, it needs to entertain other trains of thought.
  - back_beyond 10y ago
    The EU is comprised of over 500 million people from a variety of backgrounds, many of which are indeed Muslim. Hardly an echo chamber. I fail to see what additional growth could be fostered through adding a Muslim majority country. Would you care to elaborate?
    - bArray 10y ago
      @gkya has done a good job of elaborating part of the reason being the Westernisation of Islam. The EU is a highly Christian dominated place with a "them vs us" mentality. The EU tries to fix the world's problems without ever engaging the world's cultures. It's not about growth, it's about the future of civilisation. It's at a time where we need to be taking down barriers, not putting more up. We may not financially benefit from having Turkey, but it's certainly a step towards empowering the secular Muslims and moving forwards together.
      - danielscrubs 10y ago
        Highly christian? I don't know a single christian and I've lived here for 30 years. We have the least religious countries _in the world_! Otherwise it sounds good but I hope you are not all talk and are yourself giving money to other religious entities.
        bArray 10y ago
        Christianity is 72% in the EU according to Wikipedia [1], it's really high. Even if the figures are wrong or have changes, I'm willing to bet it's above 60% regardless. Makes me wonder about where you live? What do you mean by "I hope you are not all talk and are yourself giving money to other religious entities."? I don't agree with religion in general, but I think the way forwards is to embrace it and it's cultures in order to move forwards. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_European_Union
- gkya 10y ago
  Islam is a religion just like the other abrahamitic ones, with an old book that's sort of surprising when read (I'm reading bible and am at Numbers atm, many gross things up until now, many awaiting), and some traditions around that. Embracing a muslim country would help weaken the extremist ones and inforce the more secular, peaceful, civil ones, (which are the majority in Turkey), as the former is mostly fed by what's projected as the hostility of west and incompatibility of 'their' civilisation with islam. Turkey has one of the strongest secular muslim communities (despite the later fundamentalists, who are always louder than the sane), and is a good candidate for initiating a process of secularisation of relations between the west and the near-east. Fundamentailsm is a global problem, but the fact that muslim world is in conflict makes out of it a fatal threat, whereas, in west where there's peace and a longer after-empire experience the worst you see is Jeovahs Witnesses, the anti-homosexuality people and anti-abortionists.
mortehu 10y ago
How about Bosnia and Herzegovina? They're 51% muslim and have applied to join EU earlier this year.
- bArray 10y ago
  I think the topic was Turkey - honestly I don't know enough about those Countries to make a comment on them. If they're modernised and meet the criteria, then we should certainly look to bring them in slowly. It may be a mistake to rush the process.
  - rspeer 10y ago
    To be clear, Bosnia and Herzegovina is one country.
    - bArray 10y ago
      Yeah, I think because I've heard it shortened to just Bosnia I assumed it was two places. Thanks for correcting me on that.

by bArray 10y ago

back_beyond 10y ago

Why would you like to see a Muslim country in the EU? Even without Turkey, we are trending in this direction.

bArray 10y ago
Good question. Currently it's an echo chamber of similar minded Countries. I think in order for the EU to grow, it needs to entertain other trains of thought.
- back_beyond 10y ago
  The EU is comprised of over 500 million people from a variety of backgrounds, many of which are indeed Muslim. Hardly an echo chamber. I fail to see what additional growth could be fostered through adding a Muslim majority country. Would you care to elaborate?
  - bArray 10y ago
    @gkya has done a good job of elaborating part of the reason being the Westernisation of Islam. The EU is a highly Christian dominated place with a "them vs us" mentality. The EU tries to fix the world's problems without ever engaging the world's cultures. It's not about growth, it's about the future of civilisation. It's at a time where we need to be taking down barriers, not putting more up. We may not financially benefit from having Turkey, but it's certainly a step towards empowering the secular Muslims and moving forwards together.
    - danielscrubs 10y ago
      Highly christian? I don't know a single christian and I've lived here for 30 years. We have the least religious countries _in the world_! Otherwise it sounds good but I hope you are not all talk and are yourself giving money to other religious entities.
      - bArray 10y ago
        Christianity is 72% in the EU according to Wikipedia [1], it's really high. Even if the figures are wrong or have changes, I'm willing to bet it's above 60% regardless. Makes me wonder about where you live? What do you mean by "I hope you are not all talk and are yourself giving money to other religious entities."? I don't agree with religion in general, but I think the way forwards is to embrace it and it's cultures in order to move forwards. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_European_Union
gkya 10y ago
Islam is a religion just like the other abrahamitic ones, with an old book that's sort of surprising when read (I'm reading bible and am at Numbers atm, many gross things up until now, many awaiting), and some traditions around that. Embracing a muslim country would help weaken the extremist ones and inforce the more secular, peaceful, civil ones, (which are the majority in Turkey), as the former is mostly fed by what's projected as the hostility of west and incompatibility of 'their' civilisation with islam. Turkey has one of the strongest secular muslim communities (despite the later fundamentalists, who are always louder than the sane), and is a good candidate for initiating a process of secularisation of relations between the west and the near-east. Fundamentailsm is a global problem, but the fact that muslim world is in conflict makes out of it a fatal threat, whereas, in west where there's peace and a longer after-empire experience the worst you see is Jeovahs Witnesses, the anti-homosexuality people and anti-abortionists.

mortehu 10y ago

How about Bosnia and Herzegovina? They're 51% muslim and have applied to join EU earlier this year.

bArray 10y ago
I think the topic was Turkey - honestly I don't know enough about those Countries to make a comment on them. If they're modernised and meet the criteria, then we should certainly look to bring them in slowly. It may be a mistake to rush the process.
- rspeer 10y ago
  To be clear, Bosnia and Herzegovina is one country.
  - bArray 10y ago
    Yeah, I think because I've heard it shortened to just Bosnia I assumed it was two places. Thanks for correcting me on that.