4 ms·

They are all aspects of institutional racism in the US; they discriminate against African-Americans, while African immigrant are somewhat shielded from their ef

They are all aspects of institutional racism in the US; they discriminate against African-Americans, while African immigrant are somewhat shielded from their effects. So, if your argument is that what we term racism should better be called culturism or something, ok I guess so. Still is a real problem.

jimmywanger 10y ago
See my comment to a thread above. Basically, according to tech hiring data, they _don't_ break things down by culture, just by race. That's why it's such an important distinction. Is hiring 20 highly achieving black african immigrants who grew up in white enclaves just as desirable as hiring 20 low achieving black people who spent generations here being discriminated against? According to these statistics, both are equally good and desirable.
- Jill_the_Pill 10y ago
  Maybe we are going in circles. I perceived your original comment to place the blame on African-American culture (nonsense about "broken families" e.g.). Yes, hiring Africans into predominantly European-American companies produces one sort of diversity there, and it's a good one, but hiring African-Americans and Latino-Americans produces a different (also desirable) diversity, which does arguably more good in our traditionally less-privileged communities by getting more parents employed in good jobs and seeing real opportunities ahead for the kids in school to strive for. Even in this comment I'd debate the term "low-achieving." There are many high-achieving African-Americans, and the automatic association of race/culture with low achievement is a problem.
  - jimmywanger 10y ago
    I think we're mostly agreeing. The point I'm trying to make is that cultural diversity is arguably more important than racial diversity, but we're only measuring racial diversity where the ethnic background of the person is the only thing that matter. For example, if a white couple were to adopt a black kid, and you hired that kid, that would boost "diversity numbers". What would be much more interesting to me would be to see what proportion of employees' parents had college degrees, were they the first ones in their families to get college degrees, the amount of money that their parents made when they were growing up, if their parents spoke the language as a native speaker, if they grew up in a traditional two parent family. That would be far more compelling and would result in more diversity. For instance, there are plenty of fourth generation chinese immigrants to the US living in Chinatown that still don't speak English. If they tried to get help for coding or academics, they kind of out of luck because of the color of their skin. Similarly for white kids who grew up in a dying town in the rust belt, or an indian kid who's parents manage a hotel in the rural south. Because of their race, not because of their disadvantages, they're cut off from help. And btw, there is not much nonsense about broken families. It can be debatable whether or not single parent households are good or not but black (including African immigrants, as they don't split them out) families are a lot more likely to be single parent. http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by#detailed/1/any/false/869,36,868,867,133/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/432,431 http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-...

jimmywanger 10y ago

See my comment to a thread above. Basically, according to tech hiring data, they _don't_ break things down by culture, just by race. That's why it's such an important distinction. Is hiring 20 highly achieving black african immigrants who grew up in white enclaves just as desirable as hiring 20 low achieving black people who spent generations here being discriminated against? According to these statistics, both are equally good and desirable.

Jill_the_Pill 10y ago
Maybe we are going in circles. I perceived your original comment to place the blame on African-American culture (nonsense about "broken families" e.g.). Yes, hiring Africans into predominantly European-American companies produces one sort of diversity there, and it's a good one, but hiring African-Americans and Latino-Americans produces a different (also desirable) diversity, which does arguably more good in our traditionally less-privileged communities by getting more parents employed in good jobs and seeing real opportunities ahead for the kids in school to strive for. Even in this comment I'd debate the term "low-achieving." There are many high-achieving African-Americans, and the automatic association of race/culture with low achievement is a problem.
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  I think we're mostly agreeing. The point I'm trying to make is that cultural diversity is arguably more important than racial diversity, but we're only measuring racial diversity where the ethnic background of the person is the only thing that matter. For example, if a white couple were to adopt a black kid, and you hired that kid, that would boost "diversity numbers". What would be much more interesting to me would be to see what proportion of employees' parents had college degrees, were they the first ones in their families to get college degrees, the amount of money that their parents made when they were growing up, if their parents spoke the language as a native speaker, if they grew up in a traditional two parent family. That would be far more compelling and would result in more diversity. For instance, there are plenty of fourth generation chinese immigrants to the US living in Chinatown that still don't speak English. If they tried to get help for coding or academics, they kind of out of luck because of the color of their skin. Similarly for white kids who grew up in a dying town in the rust belt, or an indian kid who's parents manage a hotel in the rural south. Because of their race, not because of their disadvantages, they're cut off from help. And btw, there is not much nonsense about broken families. It can be debatable whether or not single parent households are good or not but black (including African immigrants, as they don't split them out) families are a lot more likely to be single parent. http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by#detailed/1/any/false/869,36,868,867,133/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/432,431 http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-...