13 ms·

The folks who make HyperTerm might have something to say about your product naming... http://www.hilgraeve.com/hyperterminal/ http://www.hilgraeve.com/hyperter

by dsl 10y ago

The folks who make HyperTerm might have something to say about your product naming... http://www.hilgraeve.com/hyperterminal/ http://www.hilgraeve.com/hyperterminal/ Edit: I'm surprised more people in the HN crowd aren't familiar with HyperTerm (Yes that is the name and what everyone called it for many many years) It was bundled with Windows up to 7, and is still used heavily in industrial control areas.

sigzero 10y ago
That's "HyperTerminal" not "HyperTerm".
- Jtsummers 10y ago
  A very similar name for a product sitting in the same space (terminal emulator). That's generally an unwise decision as it can create confusion for both projects, and the one with the trademark (especially since this new one's name is a substring of the older project) is in a position to make a valid claim against the new project. If someone created a new project called Steem to deliver video games to end users[, would you] be surprised if Valve took issue with their choice of name? EDIT: Left out part of a sentence.
  - digler999 10y ago
    > if Valve took issue isn't it true that companies have to take issue, otherwise they lose their trademark? I used to be angry when large corporations would sue a little guy or nonprofit over name squabbles, but then I heard that the big company can lose their trademark if they dont.
    - Jtsummers 10y ago
      That's my understanding as well, yes.
    - zyxley 10y ago
      For an example of this happening, "Aspirin" was originally a Bayer trademark registered in 1897.
    - HeavyStorm 10y ago
      I probably heard the same thing as you. With the whole Scrolls fiasco, I think. Someone explained Bethesda had to go after Mojang.
- evanelias 10y ago
  HyperTerminal was commonly referred to as "HyperTerm" in the BBS community, probably because the executable was hypertrm.exe. Also possibly because most other dial-up terminal emulators had names ending in "Term". The free version was bundled with Windows for 10+ years, and although it wasn't a particularly great terminal, its ubiquity came in handy when trying to bring new people into the bulletin board system world.
- jsnathan 10y ago
  Anyone remember this? > On February 20, 2004, the developers of wxWindows announced that the project was changing its name to wxWidgets, as a result of Microsoft requesting Julian Smart to respect Microsoft's United Kingdom trademark of the term Windows. [1] That being said, I think if MS doesn't ask them to change it, there isn't much to worry about. "wxWindows" was originally started in 1992. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WxWidgets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WxWidgets
  - CamperBob2 10y ago
    IIRC, Microsoft licensed Hyperterminal from a company called Hilgraeve (sp?). It was never an official part of Windows, although IMHO it should have been. Regardless of who owns/owned the trademarks in whatever countries, it's not appropriate to reuse the name. It will lead to unnecessary confusion. Bad call, even if no lawyers get involved.
betenoire 10y ago
not the same name, but close. (I can't find the text "HyperTerm" on that page)
- grantmc09 10y ago
  You sure? Because I can. http://i.imgur.com/3WnYw4H.png http://i.imgur.com/3WnYw4H.png
  - betenoire 10y ago
    Are you being serious?
im_down_w_otp 10y ago
Perhaps a rename to "HyperTermiML" is in order.
- masukomi 10y ago
  that probably wouldn't be different enough to satisfy a trademark infringement. you could easily make a case that those are confusable, and obviously similar types of products (both terminal emulators).
  - im_down_w_otp 10y ago
    I know.
balls187 10y ago
I also thought of hyperterminal. HyperTerm is what I called it (because I'm old).
laumars 10y ago
Oh wow that's a blast from the past. I don't think I've used that in 15 years. But yeah, like yourself, the first thing I thought of when I saw this title was that old Windows terminal.
acangiano 10y ago
This is definitely a trademark violation: http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:prhe4n.2.1 http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:prh... A rename is in order.
- jsprogrammer 10y ago
  This doesn't appear to be a commercial product, so there could be no trademark violation.
  - zyxley 10y ago
    That's not how trademarks work.
    - jsprogrammer 10y ago
      Please explain how they work. The US government has only been given the authority to regulate interstate commerce. A downmod is not an explanation. You could post a snippet of law, for example.
      - JoBrad 10y ago
        That's a gross misunderstanding of the Constitution. Some very simple searching lands you at this page, which has some helpful information about trademarks, how to pick one, and how to enforce it. Properly enforced, trademarks are a source of financial stability for entrepreneurs, and it is entirely in the realm of the US government to regulate them. http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks-getting-started/trademark-basics/basic-facts-about-trademarks-videos http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks-getting-started/trademark-ba...
        jsprogrammer 10y ago
        Unfortunately my current network appears to block that site. Perhaps you could paste a quote from that page that is relevant to this discussion? The argument here is that this use is non-commercial (we are also apparently arguing about a non-respondent trademark), so the financial stability of entrepreneurs is irrelevant.
__b__ 10y ago
Before UNIX was ported to the PC, I used a DOS program called Crosstalk Communicator. Today it's so easy to run a small UNIX kernel on a PC. Why would "industrial control areas" still be using Windows, if what they need is terminal emulation? Tradition? Windows-only software? Windows on a networked computer sounds like a potential security hazard in such places. Maybe they can get the domain name through UDRP.
- swiley 10y ago
  32 bit windows XP was an RTOS. This is one of the reasons so many people where reluctant to leave it.
  - wolrah 10y ago
    Windows CE can be a RTOS. XP is not. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms838350(v=winembedded.5).aspx#xpefaq_topic10 https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms838350(v=winembed... "Is Windows XP Embedded a real-time OS? Windows XP Embedded satisfies the vast majority of performance requirements. However, if you require a more powerful real-time support for your Windows XP Embedded OS, you can utilize one of the real-time extensions that are available through third-party vendors." There are apparently third-party real-time extensions available, but if that counts then the existence of CONFIG_PREEMPT_RT makes Linux a RTOS and I think that'd be a pretty silly claim too.

by dsl 10y ago

sigzero 10y ago

That's "HyperTerminal" not "HyperTerm".

Jtsummers 10y ago
A very similar name for a product sitting in the same space (terminal emulator). That's generally an unwise decision as it can create confusion for both projects, and the one with the trademark (especially since this new one's name is a substring of the older project) is in a position to make a valid claim against the new project. If someone created a new project called Steem to deliver video games to end users[, would you] be surprised if Valve took issue with their choice of name? EDIT: Left out part of a sentence.
- digler999 10y ago
  > if Valve took issue isn't it true that companies have to take issue, otherwise they lose their trademark? I used to be angry when large corporations would sue a little guy or nonprofit over name squabbles, but then I heard that the big company can lose their trademark if they dont.
  - Jtsummers 10y ago
    That's my understanding as well, yes.
  - zyxley 10y ago
    For an example of this happening, "Aspirin" was originally a Bayer trademark registered in 1897.
  - HeavyStorm 10y ago
    I probably heard the same thing as you. With the whole Scrolls fiasco, I think. Someone explained Bethesda had to go after Mojang.
evanelias 10y ago
HyperTerminal was commonly referred to as "HyperTerm" in the BBS community, probably because the executable was hypertrm.exe. Also possibly because most other dial-up terminal emulators had names ending in "Term". The free version was bundled with Windows for 10+ years, and although it wasn't a particularly great terminal, its ubiquity came in handy when trying to bring new people into the bulletin board system world.
jsnathan 10y ago
Anyone remember this? > On February 20, 2004, the developers of wxWindows announced that the project was changing its name to wxWidgets, as a result of Microsoft requesting Julian Smart to respect Microsoft's United Kingdom trademark of the term Windows. [1] That being said, I think if MS doesn't ask them to change it, there isn't much to worry about. "wxWindows" was originally started in 1992. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WxWidgets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WxWidgets
- CamperBob2 10y ago
  IIRC, Microsoft licensed Hyperterminal from a company called Hilgraeve (sp?). It was never an official part of Windows, although IMHO it should have been. Regardless of who owns/owned the trademarks in whatever countries, it's not appropriate to reuse the name. It will lead to unnecessary confusion. Bad call, even if no lawyers get involved.

betenoire 10y ago

not the same name, but close. (I can't find the text "HyperTerm" on that page)

grantmc09 10y ago
You sure? Because I can. http://i.imgur.com/3WnYw4H.png http://i.imgur.com/3WnYw4H.png
- betenoire 10y ago
  Are you being serious?

im_down_w_otp 10y ago

Perhaps a rename to "HyperTermiML" is in order.

masukomi 10y ago
that probably wouldn't be different enough to satisfy a trademark infringement. you could easily make a case that those are confusable, and obviously similar types of products (both terminal emulators).
- im_down_w_otp 10y ago
  I know.

balls187 10y ago

I also thought of hyperterminal. HyperTerm is what I called it (because I'm old).

laumars 10y ago

Oh wow that's a blast from the past. I don't think I've used that in 15 years. But yeah, like yourself, the first thing I thought of when I saw this title was that old Windows terminal.

acangiano 10y ago

This is definitely a trademark violation: http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:prhe4n.2.1 http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:prh... A rename is in order.

jsprogrammer 10y ago
This doesn't appear to be a commercial product, so there could be no trademark violation.
- zyxley 10y ago
  That's not how trademarks work.
  - jsprogrammer 10y ago
    Please explain how they work. The US government has only been given the authority to regulate interstate commerce. A downmod is not an explanation. You could post a snippet of law, for example.
    - JoBrad 10y ago
      That's a gross misunderstanding of the Constitution. Some very simple searching lands you at this page, which has some helpful information about trademarks, how to pick one, and how to enforce it. Properly enforced, trademarks are a source of financial stability for entrepreneurs, and it is entirely in the realm of the US government to regulate them. http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks-getting-started/trademark-basics/basic-facts-about-trademarks-videos http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks-getting-started/trademark-ba...
      - jsprogrammer 10y ago
        Unfortunately my current network appears to block that site. Perhaps you could paste a quote from that page that is relevant to this discussion? The argument here is that this use is non-commercial (we are also apparently arguing about a non-respondent trademark), so the financial stability of entrepreneurs is irrelevant.

__b__ 10y ago

Before UNIX was ported to the PC, I used a DOS program called Crosstalk Communicator. Today it's so easy to run a small UNIX kernel on a PC. Why would "industrial control areas" still be using Windows, if what they need is terminal emulation? Tradition? Windows-only software? Windows on a networked computer sounds like a potential security hazard in such places. Maybe they can get the domain name through UDRP.

swiley 10y ago
32 bit windows XP was an RTOS. This is one of the reasons so many people where reluctant to leave it.
- wolrah 10y ago
  Windows CE can be a RTOS. XP is not. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms838350(v=winembedded.5).aspx#xpefaq_topic10 https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms838350(v=winembed... "Is Windows XP Embedded a real-time OS? Windows XP Embedded satisfies the vast majority of performance requirements. However, if you require a more powerful real-time support for your Windows XP Embedded OS, you can utilize one of the real-time extensions that are available through third-party vendors." There are apparently third-party real-time extensions available, but if that counts then the existence of CONFIG_PREEMPT_RT makes Linux a RTOS and I think that'd be a pretty silly claim too.