3 ms·

Taken as a whole, ESR is an embarrassment. But the parent didn't say that we should consider ESR an authority, final or otherwise. They only expressed their o

by jshevek 10y ago

Taken as a whole, ESR is an embarrassment. But the parent didn't say that we should consider ESR an authority, final or otherwise. They only expressed their opinion that those words (penned by ESR) "captures all aspects fairly well".

deleted 10y ago
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iamjeff 10y ago
>ESR is an embarrassment I have actually read some of his material and found your statement somewhat confusing. Is it that you dislike him as a person or is there something that I missed completely? Is there any other material that would give a clearer and perhaps more authentic explanation of these ethos (cause, frankly, I though that ESR did a good job there)? *Pardon my grammar, ESL bro.
- jshevek 10y ago
  Please forive the lenthy disclaimer/preamble: I very strongly believe that when we consider some subset of a person's words or their work - that we should treat it on its own merits, and not contaminated with tangential arguments about the person themself or their other, unrelated words, claims, works, etc. So I mentioned my position (that he is an embarrassment) to make clear to the parent poster that I wasn't defending ESR per se - before immediately declaring that our shared distaste of ESR is not relevant to the discussion. I'm replying out of courtesy, since you asked, but I don't think discussing negative aspects of ESR is relevant to the larger topics here. > more authentic explanation of these ethos (cause, frankly, I though that ESR did a good job there)? I think ESR's comments on the hacker ethos are just fine. His other positions and writing in no way detracts from this. I think there are many places where ESR did 'a good job'. > is there something that I missed completely? I don't have any fair or balanced sources to share with you, but if you'd like to see links cherry picked by people who have a heavy anti-ESR bias, you can check out the not-so-rational "rationalwiki". I don't endorse nor agree with all that's said here, but it sheds light on why some people dislike ESR. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond#Footnotes http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond#Footnotes Edit: A more concise summary is found in this person's views: http://cal-harding.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-i-hate-eric-raymond.html http://cal-harding.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-i-hate-eric-raym... Also, see daveloyall's comments on this page. I don't fully agree with him either, but they are illuminating.
  - iamjeff 10y ago
    Thank you for taking the time out to reply. I won't press on this issue any longer; I believe that the links that you have provided are adequate starting points for understanding this issue a little better. Once again, thank you for the reply. PS: Some of the comments that ESR has made over the years are shocking; I was absolutely gutted to note as much after reading Harding's blog.

by jshevek 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

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iamjeff 10y ago

>ESR is an embarrassment I have actually read some of his material and found your statement somewhat confusing. Is it that you dislike him as a person or is there something that I missed completely? Is there any other material that would give a clearer and perhaps more authentic explanation of these ethos (cause, frankly, I though that ESR did a good job there)? *Pardon my grammar, ESL bro.

jshevek 10y ago
Please forive the lenthy disclaimer/preamble: I very strongly believe that when we consider some subset of a person's words or their work - that we should treat it on its own merits, and not contaminated with tangential arguments about the person themself or their other, unrelated words, claims, works, etc. So I mentioned my position (that he is an embarrassment) to make clear to the parent poster that I wasn't defending ESR per se - before immediately declaring that our shared distaste of ESR is not relevant to the discussion. I'm replying out of courtesy, since you asked, but I don't think discussing negative aspects of ESR is relevant to the larger topics here. > more authentic explanation of these ethos (cause, frankly, I though that ESR did a good job there)? I think ESR's comments on the hacker ethos are just fine. His other positions and writing in no way detracts from this. I think there are many places where ESR did 'a good job'. > is there something that I missed completely? I don't have any fair or balanced sources to share with you, but if you'd like to see links cherry picked by people who have a heavy anti-ESR bias, you can check out the not-so-rational "rationalwiki". I don't endorse nor agree with all that's said here, but it sheds light on why some people dislike ESR. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond#Footnotes http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond#Footnotes Edit: A more concise summary is found in this person's views: http://cal-harding.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-i-hate-eric-raymond.html http://cal-harding.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-i-hate-eric-raym... Also, see daveloyall's comments on this page. I don't fully agree with him either, but they are illuminating.
- iamjeff 10y ago
  Thank you for taking the time out to reply. I won't press on this issue any longer; I believe that the links that you have provided are adequate starting points for understanding this issue a little better. Once again, thank you for the reply. PS: Some of the comments that ESR has made over the years are shocking; I was absolutely gutted to note as much after reading Harding's blog.