7 ms·

AutoMicroFarm is now open-source

193 points by ph0rque 10y ago

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teach 10y ago
"AutoMicroFarm is an aquaponics garden for your back yard, designed so that your plants are automatically watered and fertilized. The fish feed the plants. The plants clean the water for the fish. "You get vegetables, fruit, nuts, beans as well as fish for your harvest. I have researched and implemented the best practices of aquaponics so you don't have to. It's easy and convenient to maintain: just plant, prune, harvest, and feed the fish!" For those like me that hadn't heard of this neat concept yet. Another quote: "Like solar panels, but for your food: [imagine] being able to produce the majority of your food in your backyard, a few dozen feet from where it would be consumed." Sounds pretty cool to me.
- ph0rque 10y ago
  Thank you for the kind words. My main hurdle is educating the market on the concept.
  - edanm 10y ago
    Just a thought - I don't know the word aquaponics. I'm a native English speaker but not living in an English-speaking country, so I don't know if most people do know the word. It might be worth using another word on the website, in addition to aquaponics, to make the concept more vivd. Something like "self-" something or "auto-" something (sorry, can't think of anything!). I know you have other descriptions on the site, but the title in the end is "an aquaponics farm", and this is probably how other people will describe it to friends/etc.
    - Annatar 10y ago
      Normally hydroponics is used instead of aquaponics, but hydros being the Greek word for aqua, being the Latin word for water, they mean the same thing.
      - detaro 10y ago
        Hydroponics is cultivating plants in water. Aquaculture is raising water-living animals. Aquaponics is the combination of the two in one system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaponics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaponics
    - ph0rque 10y ago
      On my website, I have, "AutoMicroFarm is an aquaponics garden, so your plants are automatically watered and fertilized. The fish feed the plants. The plants clean the water for the fish." Do you have a suggestion on how to change the wording to make it more clear that this is a short definition of aquaponics?
      - edanm 10y ago
        It's a decent definition, but appears to far down in the website IMO. It's way below the fold, which means I only encountered it after being confused for a while, during which time I could easily have said "ok this is something that's not relevant for me as I don't know what it is".
SeanDav 10y ago
Great idea but a word of warning to others that might try this. If you don't want your fish to die rather horribly, please understand the Nitrogen Cycle (and at least some fish husbandry) and test for it. For example: https://www.theaquariumwiki.com/The_Nitrogen_Cycle https://www.theaquariumwiki.com/The_Nitrogen_Cycle
- asciimo 10y ago
  And if you really want to optimize your system and reduce suffering, eliminate the fish. Spend a fraction of your fish food money on fertilizer instead.
  - ph0rque 10y ago
    Hmm, I don't think the fish food is that much more expensive than fertilizer. Also, by eliminating the fish, you... eliminate the fish harvest, which many people would find desirable.
    - asciimo 10y ago
      Efficiency is the goal with these small systems. If you desire fish, steak, or hot fudge sundaes, you can go to a restaurant. If you want a sustainable system that provides the greatest amount of nutrition for the lowest resource expense, you want a system like this without animals. Any time you introduce animals into a food system you're adding at least one trophic level, dropping your output by at least 90%. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScizkxMlEOM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScizkxMlEOM
      - ph0rque 10y ago
        > Efficiency is the goal with these small systems. Thanks for that thought-provoking line. My vision is for the average quarter-acre lot to produce a variety of food for the family living in that house, including veggies, fruit, nuts, beans, fish, eggs and optionally chicken (or other small fowl), honey, mushrooms, and more. If efficiency were the goal, you would need some kind of algal bioreactor that could grow the genetically-modified algae that would provide for all your dietary needs, as envisioned by Soylent: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/soylents-real-plan-is-to-replace-food-with-algae http://motherboard.vice.com/read/soylents-real-plan-is-to-re...
unethical_ban 10y ago
There was a constructive criticism which got deleted; assuming it was accurate, I thought it was respectful enough. The project itself is very interesting, and I wish I owned a backyard in which to set up a garden like this.
- dang 10y ago
  When comments are deleted (i.e. disappear altogether even if 'showdead' is 'yes' in your profile), it means the author deleted it.
iambateman 10y ago
This is awesome. I'm a garden newb...what is this doing that is better than a conventional garden bed?
- bcheung 10y ago
  Aquaponics has numerous benefits compared to traditional gardening. Plants have plenty of water being on the obvious ones. Also, they tend to be fairly low maintenance once set up correctly. Just add food (most fish can go up to a week without feeding without any negative consequences if needs be). Water usage is much lower (evaporation and what is absorbed into the plants is the only loss). Plants grow better (they have easier access to nutrients and plenty of water). The negatives are that the upfront costs are much more and you have to have some knowledge of the Nitrogen cycle and creating a comfortable environment for your fish.
  - ph0rque 10y ago
    Thanks bcheung, you got them! I'll post what I had in a previous comment: Here are just a few advantages over a traditional garden: * You get fish * Better yield, due to items mentioned below * The optimal watering cycle, followed by a drain cycle, means the plants get the air, water, and nutrients they need multiple times a day. * The water being reused means you need only 10% of it * Going organic is really easy: just feed the fish organic fish feed * No soil diseases * Virtually no weeds (I’ve picked ~3 weeds over the course of the 1.5 years I ran my initial proof-of-concept prototype) * Minimal maintenance: only need to plant, harvest, prune, and feed the fish
    - iambateman 10y ago
      Thanks, this is helpful!
  - MustardTiger 10y ago
    None of those benefits are really accurate though. Automated irrigation is very simple and has been around for a long time. The difference in water usage is negligible, most people don't use a significant amount of water on their gardens to begin with, and using a cover crop or just leaving the weeds alone instead of pulling them out for no reason largely eliminates evaporation losses. I have seen no studies that support the idea that plants grow better. Only deliberately misleading claims from people selling aquaponics systems that compare to soil with no fertilizer or too little water. Hence claims like yours: "they have easier access to nutrients and plenty of water". Those things are both fine in traditional gardens unless you choose to make them not fine.
bcheung 10y ago
I've built several aquaponics systems in my backyard (currently around 800 gallons worth) and have helped build out several others for other people. I have some constructive criticism about these designs. 1) Sand does not allow water to flow quickly enough and makes it more difficult for oxygen to get to the roots. You might end up with anaerobic zones in the grow bed. Use a grow media that is bigger (pebbles and/or hydroton are good options). Make sure the pebbles are not sharp though, you want smooth or rounded. Your hands and your grow bed liner will thank you. 2) Timing circuitry adds complexity and another point of failure, just make it run continuously. Pumps for a backyard scale aquaponics system don't consume that much electricity. 3) Depending on stocking density you may want to aerate the water so your fish don't die. Air stones work, but running the pump continuously and agitating the surface of the water will do far more. 4) Don't put the pump in the fish tank. Ideally use a sump tank that the water overflows from the fish tank into a sump tank that is lower. If you have to put the pump in the fish tank, make sure it is not at the bottom of the tank, put it about 1/4 to 1/2 way down the tank. That way if a tube springs a leak, or if the grow beds don't drain and overflow, or any other unforeseen failure comes up, you don't pump all the water out of your fish tank and kill them. 5) No need for PEX. Just stick with simple 1/2" PVC. They are cheaper and more common. Especially the fittings. PVC is perfectly safe for aquaponics. People bring up safety concerns but they are unfounded. The concerns for PVC safety are when using high pressure or hot water (neither of which is a concern with aquaponics). 6) Read up on fishless cycling to prepare the water before putting in the fish. If you use ammonia make sure it is just ammonia (no bleach or perfumes). You can speed up the cycling if you get something that has the nitrifying bacterial already. You can buy solutions that contain bacteria or just get it from an existing system / pond. 7) Get the pH dialed in before adding the fish. The nitrifying bacteria like a pH of around 8 for optimal growth but once they are establish, move the pH to the ideal balance for your plants / fish. The nitrifying bacteria will grow fine at any pH once fish are introduced so setting the pH to 8 while cycling is really only an optimization to speed up bacteria colonization. 8) Once fish are added, move the pH very slowly (ideally only 0.2 pH per day). Sudden pH changes are harmful for your fish.
- ph0rque 10y ago
  Thanks for these points, bcheung! Here are my thoughts on each point: 1) The sand-based system is based on Dr. McMurtry's aquaponics research at NC State University. Here are a list of publications about it: http://iavs.info/publications/ http://iavs.info/publications/ In general, coarse sand is a great substrate for plants. Both research and my own experience show no problems with aeration or anaerobic zones forming when set up correctly. 2) The timers are really no more complex than the pumps, so I really don't see them as adding that much complexity. 3) The way the water drains through the sand means it keeps dripping and agitating the surface for several hours after the pump stops pumping water to the vegetable beds. Of course, if you plan on maxing out the stocking density, you should add bubblers. 4) Because the water starts trickling through the sand seconds after the pump starts, you only have ~10-15% difference in water height. 5) If you want to eat the fish, might as well try to eliminate anything that might get into the fish through the plastic. It doesn't add that much cost. 6) That's a good idea, but adds the requirement of finding pure ammonia available for sale. 7 and 8) I think most people will just add filtered tap water and go with whatever pH that is.
eitally 10y ago
I live in Cary -- would you be willing to show me your setup in person, and have a chat?
- ph0rque 10y ago
  Absolutely! I'm about 15-25 minutes away (depending on where you're located in Cary). Email me (andrew@automicrofarm.com) and we can set up a time to meet.
cia48621793 10y ago
But will it makes it easier in maintenance and lesser cost of illegal substances? I can sure grow weed/420 or tobacco on that.
- ph0rque 10y ago
  See http://potentponics.com/ http://potentponics.com/
  - cia48621793 10y ago
    It's a good idea to sell organic weed and sell for a superior price!
spectrum1234 10y ago
I want to make an open source version of this for making an entire house eco friendly, when being built from the ground up. Pm me if interested.
- ph0rque 10y ago
  You mean a larger version of this in greenhouse, with enough food to provide 90% of a family's food needs? If so, that's my long-term vision, too. Check out Open Source Ecology's (and now, Open Building Institute's) work in that area: they have a house with an attached aquaponics greenhouse, the designs of which are all open source. http://opensourceecology.org/aquaponic-greenhouse-workshop/ http://opensourceecology.org/aquaponic-greenhouse-workshop/ https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/622508883/open-building-institute-eco-building-toolkit https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/622508883/open-building...
fernly 10y ago
I support this type of project and wish the OP well, but I have to say that I think the free manual is a bit overpriced in its present state. It leaves many details unsaid or vague. There needs to be a detailed plumbing diagram and many more pictures. n.b. the pictures in the blog post that is linked are not well lit or clear -- and show a "garden" with a pathetic few seedlings in one corner. There is no advice on what type of fish to buy, nor what kinds of plants would be good to start with and, very important, what kinds a newbie might think were a good idea but are not. And maybe open with a big-picture overview: what is the steady-state you want to reach? What can you realistically expect to reap from this setup in actual quantitative terms of pounds of fish and vegs, based on actual experience.
- hluska 10y ago
  I likely read that wrong. Did you say that you think the free manual is overpriced??
  - fernly 10y ago
    heck, I forgot the <snark></snark> markers...
- ph0rque 10y ago
  Hey fernly, thanks for the feedback. This was a bit of a rough draft. I'll be updating it with diagrams, advice on fish and plants, and the expected yield. I planted half the veggie beds with seeds, which are just starting to grow. I was interested in trying root vegetables, so I have sweet potatoes, carrots, and onions growing. Check back in a month, I should have pictures of a veritable jungle :).
ValleyOfTheMtns 10y ago
The problem I have with these setups is that at some point you're reliant on some kind of outside source of food. Instead of buying food for yourself, you buy food for the fish and then harvest the food from your farm. But where does the fish food come from? You still need to go to shops and buy manufactured fish food. If there was a solution to the fish food bottleneck (which is essentially a protein bottleneck) I'd be more interested in something like this. Currently it just shifts the problem of sustainable food production somewhere else. Are there ways to sustainably create your own protein-rich fish food? Perhaps some kind of insect farm? But that just shifts the problem again. Maybe an insect trap which attracts wild insects from the environment?
- ph0rque 10y ago
  That's the longer term goal. One practical way to do it is to feed all your compost to black soldier fly larvae (BSFL), which self-harvest when it's time by crawling out of the container... into the fish pond. Here's an example of a BSFL composting bin: http://www.thebiopod.com/ http://www.thebiopod.com/
  - ValleyOfTheMtns 10y ago
    That's excellent. Thanks for the info. Pretty impressive that you can regain protein content from vegetable matter like that. I wonder if it's all sustainable over a long time period or if it requires some kind of supplements to sustain the system.
    - sgc 10y ago
      there will always be a nutrient issue, as with any field you pull matter out of, but the volume is minimal compared to fertilizing an entire field. you can make protein chains but not minerals.
      - ph0rque 10y ago
        Another thing to keep in mind is that if you have any type of closed loop, you'll be adding nutrients by default. For example, if you have the food waste -> BSFL -> fish -> plants -> harvest loop, you'll be adding food waste from outside the loop, which will have the nutrients you need. If you continue consuming bananas, banana peels will be an excellent source of magnesium and potassium that will make its way into the plants through the loop mentioned above.
x0x0 10y ago
Hi ph0rque, could you discuss (or did I miss it on your site?) roughly how much food / fish this produces? Thanks!
- ph0rque 10y ago
  My previous prototype produced 10 lbs / ft^2; I think this will produce more.
  - x0x0 10y ago
    My apologies for being dense, but over what time range? What air temperature ranges does the fish pool tolerate? Thanks again.
    - ph0rque 10y ago
      That was my mistake. I meant 10 pounds per square foot on an annual basis. The minimum temperature is 50 degrees Fahrenheit, but that is a limit for the bacteria, not the fish. The maximum temperature is whatever can be found the natural bodies of water, practically speaking probably around 100 degrees Fahrenheit. Of course, it all depends on the fish you are raising.
jglauche 10y ago
I know that you want to sell your support, but I really find that your website and your open source documentation is lacking documentation. - Purchasing a kit from the button on top of the page (I assume it's a kit - although the sale button does not say that), it does not say anything about the contents included (apart from the picture I've seen somewhere on the blog), nor the required size, nor where in the world you ship it, nor if shipping is included or how much it is extra. Way down the page I see something about that you'll help to set it up for people in NC Suggestion: Link to the description below where you state more information about what's inside - When you make statements like " A well-run AutoMicroFarm will produce enough vegetables and fish to pay for itself in six months." - I want to see data! - The open source documentation should include drawing and layout examples of your product to be more complete - There's unfortunately no information about what if you want to expand your construction. What's the maximum planting area size for the size of the fish tank/amount of fish? - You should think about selling individual components - especially those that are not commonly available in hardware stores I'd offer my services for documentation and fixing the website, but I fear that I'd need to play with it myself in order to understand things better - and I cannot go to NC because I don't feel safe going there being a transsexual.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  > I know that you want to sell your support, but I really find that your website and your open source documentation is lacking documentation. There has to be a way to present HN with a gift without someone going to extremes to make it come out negative. I'm not sure if you're doing this on purpose or not but this open sourcing of the plans seems to be in response to the original launch of the product where people were complaining about the price of the kit, and could they please have the plans instead.
  - jglauche 10y ago
    Sorry, don't get me wrong: But in order get get things fixed, they need to be pointed out (and that's the point of posting things to HN, right?). I've worked on many open hardware projects the past 6 years. Documentation is a huge problem with the majority of open hardware projects. So what makes a good open hardware documentation? My first measure for that is "is the documentation good enough so I can acquire all the materials for building it on the other side of the world". My second measure is "is the documentation good enough for getting me started without wasting a lot of money on trial and error". My third measure is "is the software or other important information still up to date".
appleflaxen 10y ago
This look awesome! A couple questions: - How big or how small can the system be? - are the planters/pool included in the price? (i get the impression it' just tubing...) - what garden zones will this grow in? [1] - how much sun and/or shade is necessary? - does it include / can it be combined with a compost system? [1] http://garden.org/nga/zipzone/ http://garden.org/nga/zipzone/
- ph0rque 10y ago
  Thanks! - The system as shown is really the minimum size. You would increase the size by buying as many systems of this size as you need. - Yes, the pools are included in the price. Everything is included except for the fencing. - If you can grow a conventional garden in your zone, you can grow in an aquaponic garden. It's just a matter of what plants/fish are suited for your area. Really, your lower temperature bound is 50F, when the bacteria converting the fish waste to plant fertilizer start slowing down their activity. Of course, a well-insulated greenhouse mitigates this concern, but adds cost. Practically speaking, I would say that zones 3 and above work well without some kind of insulating structures or heating mitigation. - This depends on what plants you are trying to grow. But practically speaking, you probably want full sun at least six hours per day. - It doesn't include a compost system, but would work well paired with http://www.thebiopod.com/ http://www.thebiopod.com/ to produce black soldier fly larvae that will self-harvest into the fish tank and provide the fish with supplementary feed.

193 points by ph0rque 10y ago

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teach 10y ago

"AutoMicroFarm is an aquaponics garden for your back yard, designed so that your plants are automatically watered and fertilized. The fish feed the plants. The plants clean the water for the fish. "You get vegetables, fruit, nuts, beans as well as fish for your harvest. I have researched and implemented the best practices of aquaponics so you don't have to. It's easy and convenient to maintain: just plant, prune, harvest, and feed the fish!" For those like me that hadn't heard of this neat concept yet. Another quote: "Like solar panels, but for your food: [imagine] being able to produce the majority of your food in your backyard, a few dozen feet from where it would be consumed." Sounds pretty cool to me.

ph0rque 10y ago
Thank you for the kind words. My main hurdle is educating the market on the concept.
- edanm 10y ago
  Just a thought - I don't know the word aquaponics. I'm a native English speaker but not living in an English-speaking country, so I don't know if most people do know the word. It might be worth using another word on the website, in addition to aquaponics, to make the concept more vivd. Something like "self-" something or "auto-" something (sorry, can't think of anything!). I know you have other descriptions on the site, but the title in the end is "an aquaponics farm", and this is probably how other people will describe it to friends/etc.
  - Annatar 10y ago
    Normally hydroponics is used instead of aquaponics, but hydros being the Greek word for aqua, being the Latin word for water, they mean the same thing.
    - detaro 10y ago
      Hydroponics is cultivating plants in water. Aquaculture is raising water-living animals. Aquaponics is the combination of the two in one system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaponics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaponics
  - ph0rque 10y ago
    On my website, I have, "AutoMicroFarm is an aquaponics garden, so your plants are automatically watered and fertilized. The fish feed the plants. The plants clean the water for the fish." Do you have a suggestion on how to change the wording to make it more clear that this is a short definition of aquaponics?
    - edanm 10y ago
      It's a decent definition, but appears to far down in the website IMO. It's way below the fold, which means I only encountered it after being confused for a while, during which time I could easily have said "ok this is something that's not relevant for me as I don't know what it is".

SeanDav 10y ago

Great idea but a word of warning to others that might try this. If you don't want your fish to die rather horribly, please understand the Nitrogen Cycle (and at least some fish husbandry) and test for it. For example: https://www.theaquariumwiki.com/The_Nitrogen_Cycle https://www.theaquariumwiki.com/The_Nitrogen_Cycle

asciimo 10y ago
And if you really want to optimize your system and reduce suffering, eliminate the fish. Spend a fraction of your fish food money on fertilizer instead.
- ph0rque 10y ago
  Hmm, I don't think the fish food is that much more expensive than fertilizer. Also, by eliminating the fish, you... eliminate the fish harvest, which many people would find desirable.
  - asciimo 10y ago
    Efficiency is the goal with these small systems. If you desire fish, steak, or hot fudge sundaes, you can go to a restaurant. If you want a sustainable system that provides the greatest amount of nutrition for the lowest resource expense, you want a system like this without animals. Any time you introduce animals into a food system you're adding at least one trophic level, dropping your output by at least 90%. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScizkxMlEOM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScizkxMlEOM
    - ph0rque 10y ago
      > Efficiency is the goal with these small systems. Thanks for that thought-provoking line. My vision is for the average quarter-acre lot to produce a variety of food for the family living in that house, including veggies, fruit, nuts, beans, fish, eggs and optionally chicken (or other small fowl), honey, mushrooms, and more. If efficiency were the goal, you would need some kind of algal bioreactor that could grow the genetically-modified algae that would provide for all your dietary needs, as envisioned by Soylent: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/soylents-real-plan-is-to-replace-food-with-algae http://motherboard.vice.com/read/soylents-real-plan-is-to-re...

unethical_ban 10y ago

There was a constructive criticism which got deleted; assuming it was accurate, I thought it was respectful enough. The project itself is very interesting, and I wish I owned a backyard in which to set up a garden like this.

dang 10y ago
When comments are deleted (i.e. disappear altogether even if 'showdead' is 'yes' in your profile), it means the author deleted it.

iambateman 10y ago

This is awesome. I'm a garden newb...what is this doing that is better than a conventional garden bed?

bcheung 10y ago
Aquaponics has numerous benefits compared to traditional gardening. Plants have plenty of water being on the obvious ones. Also, they tend to be fairly low maintenance once set up correctly. Just add food (most fish can go up to a week without feeding without any negative consequences if needs be). Water usage is much lower (evaporation and what is absorbed into the plants is the only loss). Plants grow better (they have easier access to nutrients and plenty of water). The negatives are that the upfront costs are much more and you have to have some knowledge of the Nitrogen cycle and creating a comfortable environment for your fish.
- ph0rque 10y ago
  Thanks bcheung, you got them! I'll post what I had in a previous comment: Here are just a few advantages over a traditional garden: * You get fish * Better yield, due to items mentioned below * The optimal watering cycle, followed by a drain cycle, means the plants get the air, water, and nutrients they need multiple times a day. * The water being reused means you need only 10% of it * Going organic is really easy: just feed the fish organic fish feed * No soil diseases * Virtually no weeds (I’ve picked ~3 weeds over the course of the 1.5 years I ran my initial proof-of-concept prototype) * Minimal maintenance: only need to plant, harvest, prune, and feed the fish
  - iambateman 10y ago
    Thanks, this is helpful!
- MustardTiger 10y ago
  None of those benefits are really accurate though. Automated irrigation is very simple and has been around for a long time. The difference in water usage is negligible, most people don't use a significant amount of water on their gardens to begin with, and using a cover crop or just leaving the weeds alone instead of pulling them out for no reason largely eliminates evaporation losses. I have seen no studies that support the idea that plants grow better. Only deliberately misleading claims from people selling aquaponics systems that compare to soil with no fertilizer or too little water. Hence claims like yours: "they have easier access to nutrients and plenty of water". Those things are both fine in traditional gardens unless you choose to make them not fine.

bcheung 10y ago

I've built several aquaponics systems in my backyard (currently around 800 gallons worth) and have helped build out several others for other people. I have some constructive criticism about these designs. 1) Sand does not allow water to flow quickly enough and makes it more difficult for oxygen to get to the roots. You might end up with anaerobic zones in the grow bed. Use a grow media that is bigger (pebbles and/or hydroton are good options). Make sure the pebbles are not sharp though, you want smooth or rounded. Your hands and your grow bed liner will thank you. 2) Timing circuitry adds complexity and another point of failure, just make it run continuously. Pumps for a backyard scale aquaponics system don't consume that much electricity. 3) Depending on stocking density you may want to aerate the water so your fish don't die. Air stones work, but running the pump continuously and agitating the surface of the water will do far more. 4) Don't put the pump in the fish tank. Ideally use a sump tank that the water overflows from the fish tank into a sump tank that is lower. If you have to put the pump in the fish tank, make sure it is not at the bottom of the tank, put it about 1/4 to 1/2 way down the tank. That way if a tube springs a leak, or if the grow beds don't drain and overflow, or any other unforeseen failure comes up, you don't pump all the water out of your fish tank and kill them. 5) No need for PEX. Just stick with simple 1/2" PVC. They are cheaper and more common. Especially the fittings. PVC is perfectly safe for aquaponics. People bring up safety concerns but they are unfounded. The concerns for PVC safety are when using high pressure or hot water (neither of which is a concern with aquaponics). 6) Read up on fishless cycling to prepare the water before putting in the fish. If you use ammonia make sure it is just ammonia (no bleach or perfumes). You can speed up the cycling if you get something that has the nitrifying bacterial already. You can buy solutions that contain bacteria or just get it from an existing system / pond. 7) Get the pH dialed in before adding the fish. The nitrifying bacteria like a pH of around 8 for optimal growth but once they are establish, move the pH to the ideal balance for your plants / fish. The nitrifying bacteria will grow fine at any pH once fish are introduced so setting the pH to 8 while cycling is really only an optimization to speed up bacteria colonization. 8) Once fish are added, move the pH very slowly (ideally only 0.2 pH per day). Sudden pH changes are harmful for your fish.

ph0rque 10y ago
Thanks for these points, bcheung! Here are my thoughts on each point: 1) The sand-based system is based on Dr. McMurtry's aquaponics research at NC State University. Here are a list of publications about it: http://iavs.info/publications/ http://iavs.info/publications/ In general, coarse sand is a great substrate for plants. Both research and my own experience show no problems with aeration or anaerobic zones forming when set up correctly. 2) The timers are really no more complex than the pumps, so I really don't see them as adding that much complexity. 3) The way the water drains through the sand means it keeps dripping and agitating the surface for several hours after the pump stops pumping water to the vegetable beds. Of course, if you plan on maxing out the stocking density, you should add bubblers. 4) Because the water starts trickling through the sand seconds after the pump starts, you only have ~10-15% difference in water height. 5) If you want to eat the fish, might as well try to eliminate anything that might get into the fish through the plastic. It doesn't add that much cost. 6) That's a good idea, but adds the requirement of finding pure ammonia available for sale. 7 and 8) I think most people will just add filtered tap water and go with whatever pH that is.

eitally 10y ago

I live in Cary -- would you be willing to show me your setup in person, and have a chat?

ph0rque 10y ago
Absolutely! I'm about 15-25 minutes away (depending on where you're located in Cary). Email me (andrew@automicrofarm.com) and we can set up a time to meet.

cia48621793 10y ago

But will it makes it easier in maintenance and lesser cost of illegal substances? I can sure grow weed/420 or tobacco on that.

ph0rque 10y ago
See http://potentponics.com/ http://potentponics.com/
- cia48621793 10y ago
  It's a good idea to sell organic weed and sell for a superior price!

spectrum1234 10y ago

I want to make an open source version of this for making an entire house eco friendly, when being built from the ground up. Pm me if interested.

ph0rque 10y ago
You mean a larger version of this in greenhouse, with enough food to provide 90% of a family's food needs? If so, that's my long-term vision, too. Check out Open Source Ecology's (and now, Open Building Institute's) work in that area: they have a house with an attached aquaponics greenhouse, the designs of which are all open source. http://opensourceecology.org/aquaponic-greenhouse-workshop/ http://opensourceecology.org/aquaponic-greenhouse-workshop/ https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/622508883/open-building-institute-eco-building-toolkit https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/622508883/open-building...

fernly 10y ago

I support this type of project and wish the OP well, but I have to say that I think the free manual is a bit overpriced in its present state. It leaves many details unsaid or vague. There needs to be a detailed plumbing diagram and many more pictures. n.b. the pictures in the blog post that is linked are not well lit or clear -- and show a "garden" with a pathetic few seedlings in one corner. There is no advice on what type of fish to buy, nor what kinds of plants would be good to start with and, very important, what kinds a newbie might think were a good idea but are not. And maybe open with a big-picture overview: what is the steady-state you want to reach? What can you realistically expect to reap from this setup in actual quantitative terms of pounds of fish and vegs, based on actual experience.

hluska 10y ago
I likely read that wrong. Did you say that you think the free manual is overpriced??
- fernly 10y ago
  heck, I forgot the <snark></snark> markers...
ph0rque 10y ago
Hey fernly, thanks for the feedback. This was a bit of a rough draft. I'll be updating it with diagrams, advice on fish and plants, and the expected yield. I planted half the veggie beds with seeds, which are just starting to grow. I was interested in trying root vegetables, so I have sweet potatoes, carrots, and onions growing. Check back in a month, I should have pictures of a veritable jungle :).

ValleyOfTheMtns 10y ago

The problem I have with these setups is that at some point you're reliant on some kind of outside source of food. Instead of buying food for yourself, you buy food for the fish and then harvest the food from your farm. But where does the fish food come from? You still need to go to shops and buy manufactured fish food. If there was a solution to the fish food bottleneck (which is essentially a protein bottleneck) I'd be more interested in something like this. Currently it just shifts the problem of sustainable food production somewhere else. Are there ways to sustainably create your own protein-rich fish food? Perhaps some kind of insect farm? But that just shifts the problem again. Maybe an insect trap which attracts wild insects from the environment?

ph0rque 10y ago
That's the longer term goal. One practical way to do it is to feed all your compost to black soldier fly larvae (BSFL), which self-harvest when it's time by crawling out of the container... into the fish pond. Here's an example of a BSFL composting bin: http://www.thebiopod.com/ http://www.thebiopod.com/
- ValleyOfTheMtns 10y ago
  That's excellent. Thanks for the info. Pretty impressive that you can regain protein content from vegetable matter like that. I wonder if it's all sustainable over a long time period or if it requires some kind of supplements to sustain the system.
  - sgc 10y ago
    there will always be a nutrient issue, as with any field you pull matter out of, but the volume is minimal compared to fertilizing an entire field. you can make protein chains but not minerals.
    - ph0rque 10y ago
      Another thing to keep in mind is that if you have any type of closed loop, you'll be adding nutrients by default. For example, if you have the food waste -> BSFL -> fish -> plants -> harvest loop, you'll be adding food waste from outside the loop, which will have the nutrients you need. If you continue consuming bananas, banana peels will be an excellent source of magnesium and potassium that will make its way into the plants through the loop mentioned above.

x0x0 10y ago

Hi ph0rque, could you discuss (or did I miss it on your site?) roughly how much food / fish this produces? Thanks!

ph0rque 10y ago
My previous prototype produced 10 lbs / ft^2; I think this will produce more.
- x0x0 10y ago
  My apologies for being dense, but over what time range? What air temperature ranges does the fish pool tolerate? Thanks again.
  - ph0rque 10y ago
    That was my mistake. I meant 10 pounds per square foot on an annual basis. The minimum temperature is 50 degrees Fahrenheit, but that is a limit for the bacteria, not the fish. The maximum temperature is whatever can be found the natural bodies of water, practically speaking probably around 100 degrees Fahrenheit. Of course, it all depends on the fish you are raising.

jglauche 10y ago

I know that you want to sell your support, but I really find that your website and your open source documentation is lacking documentation. - Purchasing a kit from the button on top of the page (I assume it's a kit - although the sale button does not say that), it does not say anything about the contents included (apart from the picture I've seen somewhere on the blog), nor the required size, nor where in the world you ship it, nor if shipping is included or how much it is extra. Way down the page I see something about that you'll help to set it up for people in NC Suggestion: Link to the description below where you state more information about what's inside - When you make statements like " A well-run AutoMicroFarm will produce enough vegetables and fish to pay for itself in six months." - I want to see data! - The open source documentation should include drawing and layout examples of your product to be more complete - There's unfortunately no information about what if you want to expand your construction. What's the maximum planting area size for the size of the fish tank/amount of fish? - You should think about selling individual components - especially those that are not commonly available in hardware stores I'd offer my services for documentation and fixing the website, but I fear that I'd need to play with it myself in order to understand things better - and I cannot go to NC because I don't feel safe going there being a transsexual.

jacquesm 10y ago
> I know that you want to sell your support, but I really find that your website and your open source documentation is lacking documentation. There has to be a way to present HN with a gift without someone going to extremes to make it come out negative. I'm not sure if you're doing this on purpose or not but this open sourcing of the plans seems to be in response to the original launch of the product where people were complaining about the price of the kit, and could they please have the plans instead.
- jglauche 10y ago
  Sorry, don't get me wrong: But in order get get things fixed, they need to be pointed out (and that's the point of posting things to HN, right?). I've worked on many open hardware projects the past 6 years. Documentation is a huge problem with the majority of open hardware projects. So what makes a good open hardware documentation? My first measure for that is "is the documentation good enough so I can acquire all the materials for building it on the other side of the world". My second measure is "is the documentation good enough for getting me started without wasting a lot of money on trial and error". My third measure is "is the software or other important information still up to date".

appleflaxen 10y ago

This look awesome! A couple questions: - How big or how small can the system be? - are the planters/pool included in the price? (i get the impression it' just tubing...) - what garden zones will this grow in? [1] - how much sun and/or shade is necessary? - does it include / can it be combined with a compost system? [1] http://garden.org/nga/zipzone/ http://garden.org/nga/zipzone/

ph0rque 10y ago
Thanks! - The system as shown is really the minimum size. You would increase the size by buying as many systems of this size as you need. - Yes, the pools are included in the price. Everything is included except for the fencing. - If you can grow a conventional garden in your zone, you can grow in an aquaponic garden. It's just a matter of what plants/fish are suited for your area. Really, your lower temperature bound is 50F, when the bacteria converting the fish waste to plant fertilizer start slowing down their activity. Of course, a well-insulated greenhouse mitigates this concern, but adds cost. Practically speaking, I would say that zones 3 and above work well without some kind of insulating structures or heating mitigation. - This depends on what plants you are trying to grow. But practically speaking, you probably want full sun at least six hours per day. - It doesn't include a compost system, but would work well paired with http://www.thebiopod.com/ http://www.thebiopod.com/ to produce black soldier fly larvae that will self-harvest into the fish tank and provide the fish with supplementary feed.