4 ms·

It's only existed for 5 years. Technology moves very swiftly and with new capabilities comes new apps, something will replace it and so I call them fads, maybe

It's only existed for 5 years. Technology moves very swiftly and with new capabilities comes new apps, something will replace it and so I call them fads, maybe I'm wrong to do so, but let's see if it still exists in 20 years. Someone else deserves the credit for saying this, but the only things that survive on the internet are protocols. E-mail, FTP, HTTP, and as it relates to messaging, Jabber. These things are not fads and the only reason I've seen them fail is when the technology does not live up to the needs of people. If Jabber didn't have a number of important issues, perhaps all chat apps would still be using Jabber and none of these "SMS Replacements" would exist. I think I might be biased, because none of the popular chat apps in recent years has been truly open. I hate proprietary messaging apps. I hate when progress takes a back door to profiteering, especially when the profit model is selling stupid, un-exportable .gifs for $1 each. Talk about preying on the weak.

sho_hn 10y ago
Believe me, I get where you're coming from. I've worked on open source stuff - including chat apps and even a Jabber client - for 12 years, and it's still my day job, and I wouldn't want to miss going to bed knowing my work doesn't screw anybody over. So KakaoTalk and that I use it is a thorn in my side. Client and servers are closed source, there isn't an API allowing for client replacements, the protocol is undocumented, there is no federation, it's known to be under government surveillance, you get a single login session per SIM so you can't do multi-identity on the same device, there are no clients for open platforms, there is no open governance of any kind. It's so wrong. At the same time I've learned it's wrong to resent the user and their lack of care and diligence. It's misspent energy and distracts from forward progress. It doesn't ever change minds. Instead you need to try and have empathy and understand why they do what they do, and why their priorities are different. They're not weak. The truth is, KakaoTalk does what it does very well and friction-free. The UX is great. They improve things regularly and thoughtfully, supporting what people actually do with the app. It's kinda magic. The stupid .gif's aren't stupid at all, they're ~$3 for ~20, and users would readily say they're worth that - and they're right, compared to the value they get out of a hamburger it's a steal. They meaningfully make their days better. If you want to beat it, you have to be at least better at the things people care about. It's not easy, because it's very good at them. I hope we figure it out.
- simbalion 10y ago
  I share your optimism, and I am confident we will figure it out, which is why I describe these apps and similar ones as fads. They prey on ignorance and that will not last forever because the users are becoming less ignorant, as recent history (30ish years) has shown us.

sho_hn 10y ago

Believe me, I get where you're coming from. I've worked on open source stuff - including chat apps and even a Jabber client - for 12 years, and it's still my day job, and I wouldn't want to miss going to bed knowing my work doesn't screw anybody over. So KakaoTalk and that I use it is a thorn in my side. Client and servers are closed source, there isn't an API allowing for client replacements, the protocol is undocumented, there is no federation, it's known to be under government surveillance, you get a single login session per SIM so you can't do multi-identity on the same device, there are no clients for open platforms, there is no open governance of any kind. It's so wrong. At the same time I've learned it's wrong to resent the user and their lack of care and diligence. It's misspent energy and distracts from forward progress. It doesn't ever change minds. Instead you need to try and have empathy and understand why they do what they do, and why their priorities are different. They're not weak. The truth is, KakaoTalk does what it does very well and friction-free. The UX is great. They improve things regularly and thoughtfully, supporting what people actually do with the app. It's kinda magic. The stupid .gif's aren't stupid at all, they're ~$3 for ~20, and users would readily say they're worth that - and they're right, compared to the value they get out of a hamburger it's a steal. They meaningfully make their days better. If you want to beat it, you have to be at least better at the things people care about. It's not easy, because it's very good at them. I hope we figure it out.

simbalion 10y ago
I share your optimism, and I am confident we will figure it out, which is why I describe these apps and similar ones as fads. They prey on ignorance and that will not last forever because the users are becoming less ignorant, as recent history (30ish years) has shown us.