7 ms·

Two facts: 1. Among the top 12 math students there are only 3 that are not Chinese-origin, and they're all chosen for the IMO team, a bit like AA everywhere to

by ausjke 10y ago

Two facts: 1. Among the top 12 math students there are only 3 that are not Chinese-origin, and they're all chosen for the IMO team, a bit like AA everywhere to stay politically correct, which is fine. -- I heard about this but could not find the list to verify. 2. Two players in IMO team are having F1 visa, that means they're actually Chinese high school students that are studying in USA recently. This is very debatable, many disagree on this practice, and the physics, chemistry Olympiad do not have the same practice because this practice does not represent/honor/encourage the real math talents from US.

ktamura 10y ago
Wow. To be fair though, USA has been a top contender at IMO for decades, including the legendary 1994 team (all Americans, including a future Googler and the creator of "Did you mean...?" search suggestion Noam Shazeer) that got perfect scores [1] That said, it's true that many of USAMO/IMO top contenders are fairly recent immigrants, born overseas and moved to the US at a young age, but that just embodies the spirit of the United States: it's founded on a constant influx of immigrants and their desire to prove themselves. [1] https://www.imo-official.org/country_individual_r.aspx?code=USA https://www.imo-official.org/country_individual_r.aspx?code=...
- epa 10y ago
  Relevant HN comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4584656 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4584656
- throwaway6497 10y ago
  Looking at legal immigration woes of H1B from India and China - USA policy makers should really think hard about the their stupid policies where H1Bs are tied to their employer to stay legally in the country even after being on H1B for several years. Waiting in GC line for 10+ years is a joke and cruel. USA succeeds despite this. There is no political will to provide any job portability. Obama's executive directive has been watered down by special interests who don't want EAD to be provided to immigrants H1B + I140 (second stage of GC). These regressive legal immigration policies don't make USA great and show the spirit of America in good light. It feels as if, corporations and special interests like high skilled indentured workers hurting both americans and immigrants alike.
  - mavelikara 10y ago
    Agree. Here is a White House petition urging for better job portability for people on H-1B stuck in decade-long long GC backlog: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/no-respite-highly-skilled-americans-waiting-need-portable-work-authorization-recapture-500k-green-cards https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/no-respite-highly-... . Please consider signing if you feel strongly about this.
  - optforfon 10y ago
    That's such a myopic view of immigration. Countries are delighted that the US isn't causing a massive brain drain in the 3rd world. It's why US immigration is so difficult for skilled workers, and for the less skilled it's often based on green card lotteries and things that don't just skim the top talent from less fortunate countries. At the same time the US tries to make it very easy for people to come for the short term - so that they can experience our way of life and maybe build some cultural bridges and mutual understanding. The US isn't anti immgration for xenophobic reasons. Even very talented students are sent back to their countries, not because they couldn't contribute to the US and be great future citizens, but because it would be unethical for the government to do that on a large scale
    - asafira 10y ago
      I've never heard this argument, but it honestly sounds extreme. We are going to force people to leave because other countries need good citizens? And you think that is the US government's rationale? Do you have a source? I absolutely think that lots of these people would only be able to achieve their goals in America, and their home countries could not come close to what America can offer them. On top of that, the brain drain issue in other countries is not going to be solved, or even close to that, with the small number of people that get rejected h1b's each year. It honestly sounds out of place that we don't let people themselves decide what would give them the greatest happiness. As a small side comment: What about people who are legitimately scared about going back to their country, because of conflict or their sexuality being unaccepted or the like? All of these people are in the same bucket currently, from what I understand. Is it greedy of America to offer them an opportunity here, or is it more important that we are giving them shelter away from their country?
- kafkaesq 10y ago
  That said, it's true that many of USAMO/IMO top contenders are fairly recent immigrants, born overseas and moved to the US at a young age, but that just embodies the spirit of the United States: it's founded on a constant influx of immigrants and their desire to prove themselves. That's an excellent rejoinder. Indeed, one could say that by allowing recent arrivals to participate, the U.S. is in fact showcasing one of the better sides of its character - and one of its greatest strengths. And though this will inevitably be disappointing to some "native"† students - ultimately it can be seen in a positive light, in that it demonstrates what they can also achieve, given the right degree of determination. † Being as nearly everyone born in the U.S. is a actually an "immigrant" or a descendent thereof to one degree or another, this term needs to be understood as at best a loose, colloquial designation.
- deleted 10y ago
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- deleted 10y ago
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- mathattack 10y ago
  I noticed another Googler on there too. I wonder what market share Google gets of Math Olympiadians. :-)
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
mdanger007 10y ago
Migrants prove once again America's greatness.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
HardyLeung 10y ago
The USAMO winner list is here: http://www.maa.org/sites/default/files/USAMO_Winners_2016_1.pdf http://www.maa.org/sites/default/files/USAMO_Winners_2016_1.... Apparently the final team was not chosen strictly from the top 12 (Michael Kural and Ashwin Sah were Honorable Mentions).
- Bahamut 10y ago
  Could be that they couldn't attend or some other reason.
- nhaliday 10y ago
  There are two more tests used for team selection after the USAMO (during the training camp).
hardlianotion 10y ago
Gain of an open society over a closed one?
ropiku 10y ago
Also the deputy coach is a Romanian (now also a US citizen).
ap22213 10y ago
I am not seeing the importance of those facts. It's like implying that the Denver Broncos are less worthy of a team because no one from the team is from Denver.

by ausjke 10y ago

ktamura 10y ago

Wow. To be fair though, USA has been a top contender at IMO for decades, including the legendary 1994 team (all Americans, including a future Googler and the creator of "Did you mean...?" search suggestion Noam Shazeer) that got perfect scores [1] That said, it's true that many of USAMO/IMO top contenders are fairly recent immigrants, born overseas and moved to the US at a young age, but that just embodies the spirit of the United States: it's founded on a constant influx of immigrants and their desire to prove themselves. [1] https://www.imo-official.org/country_individual_r.aspx?code=USA https://www.imo-official.org/country_individual_r.aspx?code=...

epa 10y ago
Relevant HN comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4584656 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4584656
throwaway6497 10y ago
Looking at legal immigration woes of H1B from India and China - USA policy makers should really think hard about the their stupid policies where H1Bs are tied to their employer to stay legally in the country even after being on H1B for several years. Waiting in GC line for 10+ years is a joke and cruel. USA succeeds despite this. There is no political will to provide any job portability. Obama's executive directive has been watered down by special interests who don't want EAD to be provided to immigrants H1B + I140 (second stage of GC). These regressive legal immigration policies don't make USA great and show the spirit of America in good light. It feels as if, corporations and special interests like high skilled indentured workers hurting both americans and immigrants alike.
- mavelikara 10y ago
  Agree. Here is a White House petition urging for better job portability for people on H-1B stuck in decade-long long GC backlog: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/no-respite-highly-skilled-americans-waiting-need-portable-work-authorization-recapture-500k-green-cards https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/no-respite-highly-... . Please consider signing if you feel strongly about this.
- optforfon 10y ago
  That's such a myopic view of immigration. Countries are delighted that the US isn't causing a massive brain drain in the 3rd world. It's why US immigration is so difficult for skilled workers, and for the less skilled it's often based on green card lotteries and things that don't just skim the top talent from less fortunate countries. At the same time the US tries to make it very easy for people to come for the short term - so that they can experience our way of life and maybe build some cultural bridges and mutual understanding. The US isn't anti immgration for xenophobic reasons. Even very talented students are sent back to their countries, not because they couldn't contribute to the US and be great future citizens, but because it would be unethical for the government to do that on a large scale
  - asafira 10y ago
    I've never heard this argument, but it honestly sounds extreme. We are going to force people to leave because other countries need good citizens? And you think that is the US government's rationale? Do you have a source? I absolutely think that lots of these people would only be able to achieve their goals in America, and their home countries could not come close to what America can offer them. On top of that, the brain drain issue in other countries is not going to be solved, or even close to that, with the small number of people that get rejected h1b's each year. It honestly sounds out of place that we don't let people themselves decide what would give them the greatest happiness. As a small side comment: What about people who are legitimately scared about going back to their country, because of conflict or their sexuality being unaccepted or the like? All of these people are in the same bucket currently, from what I understand. Is it greedy of America to offer them an opportunity here, or is it more important that we are giving them shelter away from their country?
kafkaesq 10y ago
That said, it's true that many of USAMO/IMO top contenders are fairly recent immigrants, born overseas and moved to the US at a young age, but that just embodies the spirit of the United States: it's founded on a constant influx of immigrants and their desire to prove themselves. That's an excellent rejoinder. Indeed, one could say that by allowing recent arrivals to participate, the U.S. is in fact showcasing one of the better sides of its character - and one of its greatest strengths. And though this will inevitably be disappointing to some "native"† students - ultimately it can be seen in a positive light, in that it demonstrates what they can also achieve, given the right degree of determination. † Being as nearly everyone born in the U.S. is a actually an "immigrant" or a descendent thereof to one degree or another, this term needs to be understood as at best a loose, colloquial designation.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
mathattack 10y ago
I noticed another Googler on there too. I wonder what market share Google gets of Math Olympiadians. :-)
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

mdanger007 10y ago

Migrants prove once again America's greatness.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

HardyLeung 10y ago

The USAMO winner list is here: http://www.maa.org/sites/default/files/USAMO_Winners_2016_1.pdf http://www.maa.org/sites/default/files/USAMO_Winners_2016_1.... Apparently the final team was not chosen strictly from the top 12 (Michael Kural and Ashwin Sah were Honorable Mentions).

Bahamut 10y ago
Could be that they couldn't attend or some other reason.
nhaliday 10y ago
There are two more tests used for team selection after the USAMO (during the training camp).

hardlianotion 10y ago

Gain of an open society over a closed one?

ropiku 10y ago

Also the deputy coach is a Romanian (now also a US citizen).

ap22213 10y ago

I am not seeing the importance of those facts. It's like implying that the Denver Broncos are less worthy of a team because no one from the team is from Denver.