9 ms·

Is anyone surprised that Google didn't come from Europe, and the next one isn't either? Good for Europe. Go out there and extract that pound of flesh from the

by criley2 10y ago

Is anyone surprised that Google didn't come from Europe, and the next one isn't either? Good for Europe. Go out there and extract that pound of flesh from the foreign company and show domestics what a powerful government regulator looks like, show them that their business is better started in another country. Is what it is. Hope the tax revenue offsets the lack of innovation and talent flight. But I think Google News and Spain demonstrate the reality of this situation, that regulators are dogs chasing cars who are praying they never catch it. " In the end, Google in Europe could wind up as a very different thing than Google at home." Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government for which they have no superior domestic alternative, also suppressing domestic innovation as innovators seek greener regulatory pasture, all in the name of today's tax revenue?

Aaargh20318 10y ago
> "Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government for which they have no superior domestic alternative, also suppressing domestic innovation as innovators seek greener regulatory pasture, all in the name of today's tax revenue?" European here, the exact opposite actually: we are upset that the US is trying to sneak in less regulation through TTIP and similar deals.
getgoingnow 10y ago
Just look at this [1] list of the biggest tech/internet companies. They are all from USA and China. The only 2 reasons not all big companies are from USA is (1) Chinese versions are much better (Alibaba vs. Amazon/eBay; Uber vs. Didi) or (2) US websites are banned (Baidu vs. Google; Tencent vs. Facebook). None of them are or (most likely) will be from EU. Europe has a declining population, too much bureaucracy, hostile business environment and many other problems. This investigation is an attempt to get some money from Google (combined with raid in France & Spain over taxes) and fund the bureaucrats in Brussels. [1] http://www.statista.com/statistics/277483/market-value-of-the-largest-internet-companies-worldwide/ http://www.statista.com/statistics/277483/market-value-of-th...
LoSboccacc 10y ago
they already killed small startups with the disarmonized VAT rules :/
- nebulon 10y ago
  From my experience at cloudron.io this is hardly true. I feel there is lots of misinformation spread about the new VAT rules. I don't know how the situation is outside of Germany, but the process here is super straightforwards. In fact it is easier to report taxes in other EU countries as it is in Germany itself. Using the Mini One Stop Shop system you have a central entity to report them and the provided webinterface to do so is simple.
rufus42 10y ago
I don't think Europeans care or have to care. If it looks different, there will be other StartUps/innovations for the missing pieces. Here are many sub-search sites which doesn't deliver like Google, but are famous because they are more ethical. The question is: Is it real innovation or just an addiction for everything new and shiny.
- criley2 10y ago
  My comment is troll level? I consider European regulators behavior to be "troll level", asking for the troll tax :) Guess it's all about perspective.
  - uola 10y ago
    Of course it's about perspective, I just don't think you have a very broad one. That Google didn't come from Europe has little to do with the current situation. Europe doesn't lack innovation at all, in fact the reason that startups aren't very popular is that there are many other interesting engineering companies to work for. Talent flight is not particularly significant, especially with the US visa rules. European startups often out innovate companies like Google, but there's no way you can win when Google owns the platform. We already have sub-standard foreign technology when US companies don't roll out features in European countries. Yet, again you can't win because who's going to fund a company that any minute can be crushed by a much larger US competitor. Being able to compete with US companies is very much a problem for European startups, not because of talent flight or innovation but because they have such strong market positions that they don't mind taking advantage of. The funny thing is of course that a decade ago no one in the US cared about Europe, but now with all the shit going on in the US you constantly see shallow argument how horrible Europe is. I see that as a good sign.
    - criley2 10y ago
      "The funny thing is of course that a decade ago no one in the US cared about Europe, but now with all the shit going on in the US you constantly see shallow argument how horrible Europe is. I see that as a good sign." Your entire post is full of the "troll level" ignorance that you claim mine is, but this right here is the ignorant cherry on top. Thank you for demonstrating that you embody the criticism that you level on others. P.S. Americans complained about European regulation, inability to compete in less regulated capitalism, laggy adoption of technology, and lack of innovation 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago... P.S.S If the only reason Google didn't come from Europe is that Google has a giant market to use against competitors, how did Google get to its position? Why didn't the first Google come from Europe? Or Facebook? Or Twitter? Or ANYTHING? It's a chicken/egg problem for you to blame Google's dominance on its size, since it didn't always have this size, and there was ample opportunity prior!
uola 10y ago
We already have "sub-standard foreign technology" from US companies. China that has excluded much US companies are doing much better than Europe in term of domestic services. Other than that your comment is troll level.
ythl 10y ago
> Is anyone surprised that Google didn't come from Europe, and the next one isn't either? Disruptive/innovative startups require an "ask for forgiveness" mentality, and not a "ask for permission" mentality which Europe tries so hard to cultivate.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  Comparing how regulators are acting towards Google now vs. How they would act when Google was a startup is ridiculous. The investigations are largely based on Google abusing power, you can't do that when you're a couple of people. We need to stop looking at Facebook/Google etc. as innovative little startups. They're behemoths that can afford to ask for permission.
- philippoi 10y ago
  The nature of a Competition Commission case often requires more than just disruptive/innovative startup status. That's their starting point in this case as well: with Google's often cited 90% market share of European searches, they're liable to not abuse their dominant position. A disruptive/innovative startup won't attract this kind of attention from the Competition Commission until it has achieved similar monopoly status. It's interesting that even Thiel laid out the playbook for defending the "we're not actually a monopoly position in his 'Zero To One'." Google seems to be taking exactly that defensive tactic as their base. The three billy goats defense. If you go into the case files, you can see the logic which is central to their findings. They're in no way as general as they're made out to be in a lot of the press on the case. And Google is much less public about the case so it's hard to get a sense of what their perspective is on it. EU Competition Commission's Google Search case: http://ec.europa.eu/competition/elojade/isef/case_details.cfm?proc_code=1_39740 http://ec.europa.eu/competition/elojade/isef/case_details.cf... Edit: ...and their new case, focusing on AdSense: http://ec.europa.eu/competition/elojade/isef/case_details.cfm?proc_code=1_40411 http://ec.europa.eu/competition/elojade/isef/case_details.cf...
noobiemcfoob 10y ago
Don't gloss over the healthy number of Europeans who are (rightfully) concerned about the societal impact. I'm not arguing that there aren't a large number of wealthy and powerful interested parties doing much as you say, but they're aided by normal people interested in shaping a healthy society. It's the same problem in the US; we just don't have as large of a socialism bent. Regardless, the effect is the same. With policies like "Right to be forgotten" and publicized attacks on the posterchild for innovation, "the next Google" certainly won't be European.
sgift 10y ago
> Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government for which they have no superior domestic alternative, also suppressing domestic innovation as innovators seek greener regulatory pasture, all in the name of today's tax revenue? Not really, Europeans usually understand the problems of allowing an incumbent in one market to use its position to get control of another market. If the price to pay is slightly less 'innovation' (Whatever that means in this context), that's a price to pay.
k-mcgrady 10y ago
>> "Are Europeans not upset" I'm happy the regulators are not allowing a huge multi-national business to abuse its power. I'm happy that, to some extent, regulators are trying to make sure large foreign tech companies respect my privacy. If that means we lose Google I think you're overestimating how big of a deal that would be. I use DDG for search, iCloud for email/calendar/contacts, Safari as my desktop browser, BBC for my news, Amazon for my shopping. I don't need Google - it needs me.
- fhood 10y ago
  Wait you don't use google for searching?!?!?! Or gmail? I am in awe.
  - wongarsu 10y ago
    Google is still the best search engine, but in my opinion gmail isn't that big of a deal anymore. They were revolutionary in their time and are still very good, but there are great alternatives by now.
  - cronjobber 10y ago
    The road to hell is paved with great web search results.
  - k-mcgrady 10y ago
    I'll be honest. Google Search is better for certain things. For example it's nice getting those little boxes at the top of the page that answer your question without you even needing to follow a link but I can afford the extra few seconds it takes to click a link every now and then in exchange for better privacy and results that aren't manipulated based on data the search engine holds on me. As for Gmail that was a recent switch. I'm currently forwarding all mail to my iCloud account and using that. As I rarely use the Gmail web app (I only use desktop/mobile apps to access mail) the switch has been seamless. For me the final straw was looking at my 'activity' page on Google. Despite having turned it off web history was on. I presume they asked me to click something someday and I wasn't careful enough but that was very annoying. They've also changed the web history interface to make it pretty complicated to figure out how to delete everything. I then noticed they had location tracking on (which I also specifically disabled in the past). I couldn't find a way to delete all of that and had to delete each record individually. Google wants to do some cool stuff with all this data but it certainly isn't doing anything that makes it worth it for me to give up my privacy.
pjmlp 10y ago
No, I am upset that Europe is so dependent on foreign technology, region limited from US companies on online content and we are forced to make more data available than we should.
- _of 10y ago
  Does it really matter that much? Nobody thinks that searching online is a "foreign technology", even if it is, who cares?
cocotino 10y ago
Are you European? In that case you'd know European corporations and businesses don't have a preferential treatment at all. You should see how the European Union treats European telcos for example.
raverbashing 10y ago
> Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government Oh you're so funny. As opposed to the US where people overpay for sub-standard local technology? People in the US still use cheques. And they have to pay (a lot) to print those. Chip cards? No, let's use our fraud-prone magnetic stripe cards. It's cheaper for me to call the US using an MVNO from Europe than picking up a phone and calling the US from within with a pre-paid cell phone there. Talent flight? Sure let me wait for an H1-B (that you might not get after all). Meanwhile a non-EU worker visa takes about a month to process (sometimes less).
- electic 10y ago
  ...and at the end of the day it still doesn't produce Google scale companies.
- cynicalkane 10y ago
  > People in the US still use cheques. And they have to pay (a lot) to print those. Chip cards? No, let's use our fraud-prone magnetic stripe cards. There's a fascinating lack of awareness here. These are examples of Americans forced into sub-standard technology by government overregulation. At least the chip cards are being fixed.
  - _of 10y ago
    <rant> Checks are the most annoying part of paying my rent in the US. In Europe it was just a few clicks online. Here it sometimes takes two weeks until the landlord clears the check. </rant>
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      Dwolla!
    - snuxoll 10y ago
      So glad my landlord is awesome, she banks with Chase, I bank with Wells Fargo - since both banks support clearXchange under their own brand (Chase QuickPay, Wells Fargo SurePay) I can just send my rent payment to her email address through online banking and it is in her account within 2 days, makes life easy for me and she loves not needing to wait for a check in the mail or having to cash it.
Kurtz79 10y ago
"Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government for which they have no superior domestic alternative, also suppressing domestic innovation as innovators seek greener regulatory pasture, all in the name of today's tax revenue?" No (of course I only can speak for myself). Are Americans not upset that the absence of regulations creates the conditions for corporations to be above the law, where individuals rights are trampled in the name of corporate profit ? I guess not, and I'm fine with it, to each his own.
tyfon 10y ago
As a European (though not a EU citizen), I'm not sad that companies have to follow the rule of law. Personally I'm not sure that Google has been abusing the monopoly, but I don't have the code they use to rank search results. If they indeed abuse their position they should pay the price like everyone else. As a side note, the initial complaint against Google was filed by Microsoft. Microsoft is a US company.
EliRivers 10y ago
all in the name of today's tax revenue? The article doesn't mention tax.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  Yeah, this is an antitrust case. There are some European countries with active tax-related investigations of Google, but those are completely separate from this case.
jbmorgado 10y ago
Perhaps it's also got something to do with the fact that we don't have people shooting each other every other day around here, or the fact that we don't have people dying all around us for lack of public health treatment, or the fact that we can be sure that our kids will have a proper education. See, we like regulation, we like for the people to be forced to contribute to a better society since we know that if we just let people be greedy, they WILL be greedy and we will end up with a de-humanizing society as you have in the USA. If you don't like our rules, it's simple, just don't come here, we will and always have found an alternative even if it takes us a bit longer.
fauigerzigerk 10y ago
I think there's a bit of a selection bias at play here. US media likes to report on cases involving US companies. That's only natural. But it means that you're not getting the full picture when it comes to the actions of EU competition authorities. How do you know whether or not US conglomerates are specifically targetted if you know next to nothing about their other rulings? That said, I also think that competition policy is mostly misguided (and not just in Europe). It's ineffective and they often try to fix things that fix themselves over time anyway. Browser choice on Windows? Was that really something that needed regulators to step in? I don't think so. But there are other areas where I think Europe is right to take a harder line. Privacy is one of those things. I actually want services that only work if they can spy on everyone completely unimpeded to be sub-standard.
fauigerzigerk 10y ago
Which sub-standard technology are we being forced into? The EU claims that Google with its >90% search market share bundles/prefers its own sub-standard comparison shopping service to displace better ones. I can't say I know enough about the matter to tell if the allegations are true. But the EU's case has nothing to do with forcing sub-standard technologies on anyone. On the contrary.
AJ007 10y ago
There is definitely a strong case that technological acceleration could result in certain countries pulling so far ahead that others can never catch up. The tools of one generation build the next generation. If business owners and society don't have access to those tools they don't get to participate in creating the new stuff. I'm not sure the Google issue is the best example of Europe's regulatory issues. - To some extant at least a little of the aggressiveness, or at least the political will and approval, relates to the US implementing and enforcing US regulations on Europe's banking sector. This was not a small nor inconsequential. - I personally thought Google was going to get hit by fairly big US regulatory anti-trust actions back in 2008-09 but it never happened. I never bought Google stock specifically because of this and I was completely wrong - so I could be very wrong about other conclusions I am making now. - Ben Edelman provided convincing evidence that not only was Google hard coding certain results for their own products in their favor but explicitly lying about it publicly. There are a few analogies for this, but it basically involves consumer deception which is as bad or worse than not labelling ads or sponsored content because of the monopoly position Google holds. Kind of like if a company owned a GPS 90% of cars used and redirecting directions to businesses they owned. http://www.benedelman.org/hardcoding/ http://www.benedelman.org/hardcoding/ - No evidence but I am fairly confident that the Alphabet corporate reorganization was a pre-emptive action to losing an EU anti-trust case. Google will split apart a "Google Europe" entity which follows whatever rules the EU tells them. It is plausible it could be 3 or 4 entities depending on what the EU finally decides - Goole Search Europe, Google Ads Europe, Youtube Europe, etc. I don't know anything about the legal aspects of this, but it is similar to re-arranging assets while anticipating a future bankruptcy. - A good example of everyone being way behind the curb is Google News mobile switching to favoring AMP and basically usurping all previous ad revenue sources news organizations had. - There is a lot of discussion of price discovery and market discovery, but much of tech's innovation in recent years has involved regulatory discovery. The EU stuff absolutely could have occurred 5 years ago. The amount of money Google made by ignoring potential regulatory action likely far offsets the end punishment thanks to compounding growth. Regulators in all countries should think really hard about the line between really bad stuff and shades of grey because tech entrepreneurs are watching Google, Uber, and AirBNB and are behaving accordingly.
y0ghur7_xxx 10y ago
> Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology Personally I am really happy that we have someone watching over our privacy, and that the use of our personal data is regulated.
rbehrends 10y ago
> Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government for which they have no superior domestic alternative, also suppressing domestic innovation as innovators seek greener regulatory pasture, all in the name of today's tax revenue? A regulatory race to the bottom benefits nobody [1]. Europe has plenty of experience with monopolies and cartels abusing their political and economic power. I frankly would be more worried about US antitrust law abandoning competition as its guiding principle [2]. Which doesn't mean that everything in Europe is hunky-dory, but Google primary trouble stems from allegations that it is abusing a dominant market position. If that is true, then the EU is completely in the right to smack it down; the short-term benefits of allowing such behavior to persist are more than offset by the long-term downsides. Keep also in mind that Google – or other American companies – are not being singled out here. European giants such as Siemens and Phillips had to eat major antitrust fines as well. [1] I am not counting local stupidities such as ancillary copyright laws in Germany and Spain. That wasn't regulators running wild, that was legislatures enacting broken domestic laws at the behest of lobbyists. [2] https://newrepublic.com/article/131412/important-2016-issue-dont-know https://newrepublic.com/article/131412/important-2016-issue-...

by criley2 10y ago

Aaargh20318 10y ago

> "Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government for which they have no superior domestic alternative, also suppressing domestic innovation as innovators seek greener regulatory pasture, all in the name of today's tax revenue?" European here, the exact opposite actually: we are upset that the US is trying to sneak in less regulation through TTIP and similar deals.

getgoingnow 10y ago

Just look at this [1] list of the biggest tech/internet companies. They are all from USA and China. The only 2 reasons not all big companies are from USA is (1) Chinese versions are much better (Alibaba vs. Amazon/eBay; Uber vs. Didi) or (2) US websites are banned (Baidu vs. Google; Tencent vs. Facebook). None of them are or (most likely) will be from EU. Europe has a declining population, too much bureaucracy, hostile business environment and many other problems. This investigation is an attempt to get some money from Google (combined with raid in France & Spain over taxes) and fund the bureaucrats in Brussels. [1] http://www.statista.com/statistics/277483/market-value-of-the-largest-internet-companies-worldwide/ http://www.statista.com/statistics/277483/market-value-of-th...

LoSboccacc 10y ago

they already killed small startups with the disarmonized VAT rules :/

nebulon 10y ago
From my experience at cloudron.io this is hardly true. I feel there is lots of misinformation spread about the new VAT rules. I don't know how the situation is outside of Germany, but the process here is super straightforwards. In fact it is easier to report taxes in other EU countries as it is in Germany itself. Using the Mini One Stop Shop system you have a central entity to report them and the provided webinterface to do so is simple.

rufus42 10y ago

I don't think Europeans care or have to care. If it looks different, there will be other StartUps/innovations for the missing pieces. Here are many sub-search sites which doesn't deliver like Google, but are famous because they are more ethical. The question is: Is it real innovation or just an addiction for everything new and shiny.

criley2 10y ago
My comment is troll level? I consider European regulators behavior to be "troll level", asking for the troll tax :) Guess it's all about perspective.
- uola 10y ago
  Of course it's about perspective, I just don't think you have a very broad one. That Google didn't come from Europe has little to do with the current situation. Europe doesn't lack innovation at all, in fact the reason that startups aren't very popular is that there are many other interesting engineering companies to work for. Talent flight is not particularly significant, especially with the US visa rules. European startups often out innovate companies like Google, but there's no way you can win when Google owns the platform. We already have sub-standard foreign technology when US companies don't roll out features in European countries. Yet, again you can't win because who's going to fund a company that any minute can be crushed by a much larger US competitor. Being able to compete with US companies is very much a problem for European startups, not because of talent flight or innovation but because they have such strong market positions that they don't mind taking advantage of. The funny thing is of course that a decade ago no one in the US cared about Europe, but now with all the shit going on in the US you constantly see shallow argument how horrible Europe is. I see that as a good sign.
  - criley2 10y ago
    "The funny thing is of course that a decade ago no one in the US cared about Europe, but now with all the shit going on in the US you constantly see shallow argument how horrible Europe is. I see that as a good sign." Your entire post is full of the "troll level" ignorance that you claim mine is, but this right here is the ignorant cherry on top. Thank you for demonstrating that you embody the criticism that you level on others. P.S. Americans complained about European regulation, inability to compete in less regulated capitalism, laggy adoption of technology, and lack of innovation 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago... P.S.S If the only reason Google didn't come from Europe is that Google has a giant market to use against competitors, how did Google get to its position? Why didn't the first Google come from Europe? Or Facebook? Or Twitter? Or ANYTHING? It's a chicken/egg problem for you to blame Google's dominance on its size, since it didn't always have this size, and there was ample opportunity prior!

uola 10y ago

We already have "sub-standard foreign technology" from US companies. China that has excluded much US companies are doing much better than Europe in term of domestic services. Other than that your comment is troll level.

ythl 10y ago

> Is anyone surprised that Google didn't come from Europe, and the next one isn't either? Disruptive/innovative startups require an "ask for forgiveness" mentality, and not a "ask for permission" mentality which Europe tries so hard to cultivate.

k-mcgrady 10y ago
Comparing how regulators are acting towards Google now vs. How they would act when Google was a startup is ridiculous. The investigations are largely based on Google abusing power, you can't do that when you're a couple of people. We need to stop looking at Facebook/Google etc. as innovative little startups. They're behemoths that can afford to ask for permission.
philippoi 10y ago
The nature of a Competition Commission case often requires more than just disruptive/innovative startup status. That's their starting point in this case as well: with Google's often cited 90% market share of European searches, they're liable to not abuse their dominant position. A disruptive/innovative startup won't attract this kind of attention from the Competition Commission until it has achieved similar monopoly status. It's interesting that even Thiel laid out the playbook for defending the "we're not actually a monopoly position in his 'Zero To One'." Google seems to be taking exactly that defensive tactic as their base. The three billy goats defense. If you go into the case files, you can see the logic which is central to their findings. They're in no way as general as they're made out to be in a lot of the press on the case. And Google is much less public about the case so it's hard to get a sense of what their perspective is on it. EU Competition Commission's Google Search case: http://ec.europa.eu/competition/elojade/isef/case_details.cfm?proc_code=1_39740 http://ec.europa.eu/competition/elojade/isef/case_details.cf... Edit: ...and their new case, focusing on AdSense: http://ec.europa.eu/competition/elojade/isef/case_details.cfm?proc_code=1_40411 http://ec.europa.eu/competition/elojade/isef/case_details.cf...

noobiemcfoob 10y ago

Don't gloss over the healthy number of Europeans who are (rightfully) concerned about the societal impact. I'm not arguing that there aren't a large number of wealthy and powerful interested parties doing much as you say, but they're aided by normal people interested in shaping a healthy society. It's the same problem in the US; we just don't have as large of a socialism bent. Regardless, the effect is the same. With policies like "Right to be forgotten" and publicized attacks on the posterchild for innovation, "the next Google" certainly won't be European.

sgift 10y ago

k-mcgrady 10y ago

>> "Are Europeans not upset" I'm happy the regulators are not allowing a huge multi-national business to abuse its power. I'm happy that, to some extent, regulators are trying to make sure large foreign tech companies respect my privacy. If that means we lose Google I think you're overestimating how big of a deal that would be. I use DDG for search, iCloud for email/calendar/contacts, Safari as my desktop browser, BBC for my news, Amazon for my shopping. I don't need Google - it needs me.

fhood 10y ago
Wait you don't use google for searching?!?!?! Or gmail? I am in awe.
- wongarsu 10y ago
  Google is still the best search engine, but in my opinion gmail isn't that big of a deal anymore. They were revolutionary in their time and are still very good, but there are great alternatives by now.
- cronjobber 10y ago
  The road to hell is paved with great web search results.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  I'll be honest. Google Search is better for certain things. For example it's nice getting those little boxes at the top of the page that answer your question without you even needing to follow a link but I can afford the extra few seconds it takes to click a link every now and then in exchange for better privacy and results that aren't manipulated based on data the search engine holds on me. As for Gmail that was a recent switch. I'm currently forwarding all mail to my iCloud account and using that. As I rarely use the Gmail web app (I only use desktop/mobile apps to access mail) the switch has been seamless. For me the final straw was looking at my 'activity' page on Google. Despite having turned it off web history was on. I presume they asked me to click something someday and I wasn't careful enough but that was very annoying. They've also changed the web history interface to make it pretty complicated to figure out how to delete everything. I then noticed they had location tracking on (which I also specifically disabled in the past). I couldn't find a way to delete all of that and had to delete each record individually. Google wants to do some cool stuff with all this data but it certainly isn't doing anything that makes it worth it for me to give up my privacy.

pjmlp 10y ago

No, I am upset that Europe is so dependent on foreign technology, region limited from US companies on online content and we are forced to make more data available than we should.

_of 10y ago
Does it really matter that much? Nobody thinks that searching online is a "foreign technology", even if it is, who cares?

cocotino 10y ago

Are you European? In that case you'd know European corporations and businesses don't have a preferential treatment at all. You should see how the European Union treats European telcos for example.

raverbashing 10y ago

> Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government Oh you're so funny. As opposed to the US where people overpay for sub-standard local technology? People in the US still use cheques. And they have to pay (a lot) to print those. Chip cards? No, let's use our fraud-prone magnetic stripe cards. It's cheaper for me to call the US using an MVNO from Europe than picking up a phone and calling the US from within with a pre-paid cell phone there. Talent flight? Sure let me wait for an H1-B (that you might not get after all). Meanwhile a non-EU worker visa takes about a month to process (sometimes less).

electic 10y ago
...and at the end of the day it still doesn't produce Google scale companies.
cynicalkane 10y ago
> People in the US still use cheques. And they have to pay (a lot) to print those. Chip cards? No, let's use our fraud-prone magnetic stripe cards. There's a fascinating lack of awareness here. These are examples of Americans forced into sub-standard technology by government overregulation. At least the chip cards are being fixed.
- _of 10y ago
  <rant> Checks are the most annoying part of paying my rent in the US. In Europe it was just a few clicks online. Here it sometimes takes two weeks until the landlord clears the check. </rant>
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    Dwolla!
  - snuxoll 10y ago
    So glad my landlord is awesome, she banks with Chase, I bank with Wells Fargo - since both banks support clearXchange under their own brand (Chase QuickPay, Wells Fargo SurePay) I can just send my rent payment to her email address through online banking and it is in her account within 2 days, makes life easy for me and she loves not needing to wait for a check in the mail or having to cash it.

Kurtz79 10y ago

"Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government for which they have no superior domestic alternative, also suppressing domestic innovation as innovators seek greener regulatory pasture, all in the name of today's tax revenue?" No (of course I only can speak for myself). Are Americans not upset that the absence of regulations creates the conditions for corporations to be above the law, where individuals rights are trampled in the name of corporate profit ? I guess not, and I'm fine with it, to each his own.

tyfon 10y ago

As a European (though not a EU citizen), I'm not sad that companies have to follow the rule of law. Personally I'm not sure that Google has been abusing the monopoly, but I don't have the code they use to rank search results. If they indeed abuse their position they should pay the price like everyone else. As a side note, the initial complaint against Google was filed by Microsoft. Microsoft is a US company.

EliRivers 10y ago

all in the name of today's tax revenue? The article doesn't mention tax.

dragonwriter 10y ago
Yeah, this is an antitrust case. There are some European countries with active tax-related investigations of Google, but those are completely separate from this case.

jbmorgado 10y ago

Perhaps it's also got something to do with the fact that we don't have people shooting each other every other day around here, or the fact that we don't have people dying all around us for lack of public health treatment, or the fact that we can be sure that our kids will have a proper education. See, we like regulation, we like for the people to be forced to contribute to a better society since we know that if we just let people be greedy, they WILL be greedy and we will end up with a de-humanizing society as you have in the USA. If you don't like our rules, it's simple, just don't come here, we will and always have found an alternative even if it takes us a bit longer.

fauigerzigerk 10y ago

I think there's a bit of a selection bias at play here. US media likes to report on cases involving US companies. That's only natural. But it means that you're not getting the full picture when it comes to the actions of EU competition authorities. How do you know whether or not US conglomerates are specifically targetted if you know next to nothing about their other rulings? That said, I also think that competition policy is mostly misguided (and not just in Europe). It's ineffective and they often try to fix things that fix themselves over time anyway. Browser choice on Windows? Was that really something that needed regulators to step in? I don't think so. But there are other areas where I think Europe is right to take a harder line. Privacy is one of those things. I actually want services that only work if they can spy on everyone completely unimpeded to be sub-standard.

fauigerzigerk 10y ago

Which sub-standard technology are we being forced into? The EU claims that Google with its >90% search market share bundles/prefers its own sub-standard comparison shopping service to displace better ones. I can't say I know enough about the matter to tell if the allegations are true. But the EU's case has nothing to do with forcing sub-standard technologies on anyone. On the contrary.

AJ007 10y ago

There is definitely a strong case that technological acceleration could result in certain countries pulling so far ahead that others can never catch up. The tools of one generation build the next generation. If business owners and society don't have access to those tools they don't get to participate in creating the new stuff. I'm not sure the Google issue is the best example of Europe's regulatory issues. - To some extant at least a little of the aggressiveness, or at least the political will and approval, relates to the US implementing and enforcing US regulations on Europe's banking sector. This was not a small nor inconsequential. - I personally thought Google was going to get hit by fairly big US regulatory anti-trust actions back in 2008-09 but it never happened. I never bought Google stock specifically because of this and I was completely wrong - so I could be very wrong about other conclusions I am making now. - Ben Edelman provided convincing evidence that not only was Google hard coding certain results for their own products in their favor but explicitly lying about it publicly. There are a few analogies for this, but it basically involves consumer deception which is as bad or worse than not labelling ads or sponsored content because of the monopoly position Google holds. Kind of like if a company owned a GPS 90% of cars used and redirecting directions to businesses they owned. http://www.benedelman.org/hardcoding/ http://www.benedelman.org/hardcoding/ - No evidence but I am fairly confident that the Alphabet corporate reorganization was a pre-emptive action to losing an EU anti-trust case. Google will split apart a "Google Europe" entity which follows whatever rules the EU tells them. It is plausible it could be 3 or 4 entities depending on what the EU finally decides - Goole Search Europe, Google Ads Europe, Youtube Europe, etc. I don't know anything about the legal aspects of this, but it is similar to re-arranging assets while anticipating a future bankruptcy. - A good example of everyone being way behind the curb is Google News mobile switching to favoring AMP and basically usurping all previous ad revenue sources news organizations had. - There is a lot of discussion of price discovery and market discovery, but much of tech's innovation in recent years has involved regulatory discovery. The EU stuff absolutely could have occurred 5 years ago. The amount of money Google made by ignoring potential regulatory action likely far offsets the end punishment thanks to compounding growth. Regulators in all countries should think really hard about the line between really bad stuff and shades of grey because tech entrepreneurs are watching Google, Uber, and AirBNB and are behaving accordingly.

y0ghur7_xxx 10y ago

> Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology Personally I am really happy that we have someone watching over our privacy, and that the use of our personal data is regulated.

rbehrends 10y ago

> Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government for which they have no superior domestic alternative, also suppressing domestic innovation as innovators seek greener regulatory pasture, all in the name of today's tax revenue? A regulatory race to the bottom benefits nobody [1]. Europe has plenty of experience with monopolies and cartels abusing their political and economic power. I frankly would be more worried about US antitrust law abandoning competition as its guiding principle [2]. Which doesn't mean that everything in Europe is hunky-dory, but Google primary trouble stems from allegations that it is abusing a dominant market position. If that is true, then the EU is completely in the right to smack it down; the short-term benefits of allowing such behavior to persist are more than offset by the long-term downsides. Keep also in mind that Google – or other American companies – are not being singled out here. European giants such as Siemens and Phillips had to eat major antitrust fines as well. [1] I am not counting local stupidities such as ancillary copyright laws in Germany and Spain. That wasn't regulators running wild, that was legislatures enacting broken domestic laws at the behest of lobbyists. [2] https://newrepublic.com/article/131412/important-2016-issue-dont-know https://newrepublic.com/article/131412/important-2016-issue-...