7 ms·

Europe Is Going After Google Hard, and Google May Not Win

55 points by rufus42 10y ago

kbwt 10y ago
As it should be. I wonder why the EU isn't putting more scrutiny on the app store.
- jshevek 10y ago
  Apple's market share is too low. There's no doubt that the world would be a better place if we stood up against abuse of power on all fronts, but the laws as they stand allow apple to abuse their power with impugnity.
Shivetya 10y ago
I am not a fan of the "Right to be forgotten" but I am an even less happy with the idea that just because they are so good are providing searching that somehow they aren't allowed to favor their own interests. Are we to treat them as a utility or such simply because they spent the time and effort to become so good?
- slazaro 10y ago
  With great power comes great responsibility, right? If you're not operating ethically and it affects billions of people, I don't think it's out of the question to expect some accountability for your actions.
- GoToRO 10y ago
  The problem is that they say the results are organic, while they are not. So this fraud.
- thesehands 10y ago
  It is such a strange argument from the EU. The strongest form of Tall Poppy syndrome.
- ebbv 10y ago
  Framing it that way ignores that Google has always presented its rankings as fair. If they had always been up front about giving an unfair advantage to their own sites then that would have possibly changed history and opened up space for a competitor who did nothing but search. But Google has always presented itself as benign and benevolent. That misrepresentation is a real issue.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  In antitrust law pretty much everywhere, including the US, achieving a certain degree of dominance in a market makes anticompetitive actions which would otherwise be legal become illegal for you in order to prevent leverage dominance in one market to prevent free competition in another market. The details vary by jurisdiction, of course, but this, in broad outline, is not a difference between the US and EU.
galfarragem 10y ago
"Don't be evil." -- Google, early 2000's [1] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil Edit: Despite the strong HN bias I will keep this comment.
- jswny 10y ago
  Are people just downvoting this because they think Europe is in the wrong?
  - viraptor 10y ago
    Mostly because it's known, obvious, and doesn't add to the discussion. We know it had that idea, and we know what followed. If the OP wants to make an actual point/statement, then they could do that instead.
  - jshevek 10y ago
    Quoting something everyone in this community already knows adds nothing to the discussion. Its interesting that the commenter appears to think the downvotes are a result of some other kind of bias.
criley2 10y ago
Is anyone surprised that Google didn't come from Europe, and the next one isn't either? Good for Europe. Go out there and extract that pound of flesh from the foreign company and show domestics what a powerful government regulator looks like, show them that their business is better started in another country. Is what it is. Hope the tax revenue offsets the lack of innovation and talent flight. But I think Google News and Spain demonstrate the reality of this situation, that regulators are dogs chasing cars who are praying they never catch it. " In the end, Google in Europe could wind up as a very different thing than Google at home." Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government for which they have no superior domestic alternative, also suppressing domestic innovation as innovators seek greener regulatory pasture, all in the name of today's tax revenue?
- Aaargh20318 10y ago
  > "Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government for which they have no superior domestic alternative, also suppressing domestic innovation as innovators seek greener regulatory pasture, all in the name of today's tax revenue?" European here, the exact opposite actually: we are upset that the US is trying to sneak in less regulation through TTIP and similar deals.
- getgoingnow 10y ago
  Just look at this [1] list of the biggest tech/internet companies. They are all from USA and China. The only 2 reasons not all big companies are from USA is (1) Chinese versions are much better (Alibaba vs. Amazon/eBay; Uber vs. Didi) or (2) US websites are banned (Baidu vs. Google; Tencent vs. Facebook). None of them are or (most likely) will be from EU. Europe has a declining population, too much bureaucracy, hostile business environment and many other problems. This investigation is an attempt to get some money from Google (combined with raid in France & Spain over taxes) and fund the bureaucrats in Brussels. [1] http://www.statista.com/statistics/277483/market-value-of-the-largest-internet-companies-worldwide/ http://www.statista.com/statistics/277483/market-value-of-th...
- LoSboccacc 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
forrestthewoods 10y ago
At least these cases seem a little more reasonable than the Microsoft case. Windows N was the dumbest product ever. No consumer wanted that. No consumer benefited from it's existence. Complete waste of time and effort. Eliminating Google's stranglehold on search would be good for consumers I think. I'm not quite sure about the others. None of the write-ups seem to do a particularly good job summarizing the complaints. So I can't tell what the precise complaint is or what the improved consumer situation is speculated to be.
ksk 10y ago
I feel like all large companies run into this wall eventually. The 'head' loves to talk about welcoming competition and capitalism and all that, but the 'body' acts as-if it hates a level playing field. They tie unrelated products, predatory pricing, bundle their browser into random installers to trick people into installing it, pay other companies for preferential treatment, lock you into their platform, act like a bully, and do everything except letting individual products succeed or fail on their own merits in a free market.
timrichard 10y ago
"Europe" isn't doing anything of the sort. The EU is. Europe is a continent on the western part of Eurasia. The EU is a corrupt, anti-democractic bloated bureaucracy where the wheels are continually greased by the interests and demands of multi-billion dollar lobbying organisations. It's good to see the article allude to this in the first paragraph. It's just a shame that it doesn't come under much scrutiny in general, as it's of huge importance to people living in Europe in areas under the control of the EU.

55 points by rufus42 10y ago

kbwt 10y ago

As it should be. I wonder why the EU isn't putting more scrutiny on the app store.

jshevek 10y ago
Apple's market share is too low. There's no doubt that the world would be a better place if we stood up against abuse of power on all fronts, but the laws as they stand allow apple to abuse their power with impugnity.

Shivetya 10y ago

I am not a fan of the "Right to be forgotten" but I am an even less happy with the idea that just because they are so good are providing searching that somehow they aren't allowed to favor their own interests. Are we to treat them as a utility or such simply because they spent the time and effort to become so good?

slazaro 10y ago
With great power comes great responsibility, right? If you're not operating ethically and it affects billions of people, I don't think it's out of the question to expect some accountability for your actions.
GoToRO 10y ago
The problem is that they say the results are organic, while they are not. So this fraud.
thesehands 10y ago
It is such a strange argument from the EU. The strongest form of Tall Poppy syndrome.
ebbv 10y ago
Framing it that way ignores that Google has always presented its rankings as fair. If they had always been up front about giving an unfair advantage to their own sites then that would have possibly changed history and opened up space for a competitor who did nothing but search. But Google has always presented itself as benign and benevolent. That misrepresentation is a real issue.
dragonwriter 10y ago
In antitrust law pretty much everywhere, including the US, achieving a certain degree of dominance in a market makes anticompetitive actions which would otherwise be legal become illegal for you in order to prevent leverage dominance in one market to prevent free competition in another market. The details vary by jurisdiction, of course, but this, in broad outline, is not a difference between the US and EU.

galfarragem 10y ago

"Don't be evil." -- Google, early 2000's [1] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil Edit: Despite the strong HN bias I will keep this comment.

jswny 10y ago
Are people just downvoting this because they think Europe is in the wrong?
- viraptor 10y ago
  Mostly because it's known, obvious, and doesn't add to the discussion. We know it had that idea, and we know what followed. If the OP wants to make an actual point/statement, then they could do that instead.
- jshevek 10y ago
  Quoting something everyone in this community already knows adds nothing to the discussion. Its interesting that the commenter appears to think the downvotes are a result of some other kind of bias.

criley2 10y ago

Is anyone surprised that Google didn't come from Europe, and the next one isn't either? Good for Europe. Go out there and extract that pound of flesh from the foreign company and show domestics what a powerful government regulator looks like, show them that their business is better started in another country. Is what it is. Hope the tax revenue offsets the lack of innovation and talent flight. But I think Google News and Spain demonstrate the reality of this situation, that regulators are dogs chasing cars who are praying they never catch it. " In the end, Google in Europe could wind up as a very different thing than Google at home." Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government for which they have no superior domestic alternative, also suppressing domestic innovation as innovators seek greener regulatory pasture, all in the name of today's tax revenue?

Aaargh20318 10y ago
> "Are Europeans not upset that they're being forced into sub-standard foreign technology by their government for which they have no superior domestic alternative, also suppressing domestic innovation as innovators seek greener regulatory pasture, all in the name of today's tax revenue?" European here, the exact opposite actually: we are upset that the US is trying to sneak in less regulation through TTIP and similar deals.
getgoingnow 10y ago
Just look at this [1] list of the biggest tech/internet companies. They are all from USA and China. The only 2 reasons not all big companies are from USA is (1) Chinese versions are much better (Alibaba vs. Amazon/eBay; Uber vs. Didi) or (2) US websites are banned (Baidu vs. Google; Tencent vs. Facebook). None of them are or (most likely) will be from EU. Europe has a declining population, too much bureaucracy, hostile business environment and many other problems. This investigation is an attempt to get some money from Google (combined with raid in France & Spain over taxes) and fund the bureaucrats in Brussels. [1] http://www.statista.com/statistics/277483/market-value-of-the-largest-internet-companies-worldwide/ http://www.statista.com/statistics/277483/market-value-of-th...
LoSboccacc 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

forrestthewoods 10y ago

At least these cases seem a little more reasonable than the Microsoft case. Windows N was the dumbest product ever. No consumer wanted that. No consumer benefited from it's existence. Complete waste of time and effort. Eliminating Google's stranglehold on search would be good for consumers I think. I'm not quite sure about the others. None of the write-ups seem to do a particularly good job summarizing the complaints. So I can't tell what the precise complaint is or what the improved consumer situation is speculated to be.

ksk 10y ago

I feel like all large companies run into this wall eventually. The 'head' loves to talk about welcoming competition and capitalism and all that, but the 'body' acts as-if it hates a level playing field. They tie unrelated products, predatory pricing, bundle their browser into random installers to trick people into installing it, pay other companies for preferential treatment, lock you into their platform, act like a bully, and do everything except letting individual products succeed or fail on their own merits in a free market.

timrichard 10y ago

"Europe" isn't doing anything of the sort. The EU is. Europe is a continent on the western part of Eurasia. The EU is a corrupt, anti-democractic bloated bureaucracy where the wheels are continually greased by the interests and demands of multi-billion dollar lobbying organisations. It's good to see the article allude to this in the first paragraph. It's just a shame that it doesn't come under much scrutiny in general, as it's of huge importance to people living in Europe in areas under the control of the EU.