8 ms·

I must be missing something. Why didn't he apply for asylum in France then?

by jvdl 10y ago

throwaway049 10y ago
Some motivations for travelling on from France to UK (as mentioned in various news media over recent years) Smugglers telling people that it is better to live in UK (the smuggler then gets to charge for the trip). Easier to get work without papers Community of people from same country of origin More generous welfare provision (UK still gives 'normal' accommodation, other EU countries are re-purposing non-residential buildings to house asylum seekers)
- RockyMcNuts 10y ago
  more flexible / stronger / better paid labor markets ... easier to get a job in UK than France for most immigrants
DominikR 10y ago
Social services don't pay enough.
- overlordalex 10y ago
  I haven't watched the video, but it would more likely be things like already having a basic grasp of English, being more familiar with the culture, etc, that would make integration easier.
- curiousgal 10y ago
  You'll probably get downvoted but you are correct. As an Arab it sickens me how these "refugees" are choosing what country to stay in despite the fact they say they escaped war and torture. It saddens me how they are giving us, potential future immigrants with degrees and a desire to be functional parts of society, more bad rep.
  - widforss 10y ago
    As a refugee one is looking for a better life per definition. Surely the primary goal is to get away from war or threats of violence and death, but if you were starting over, wouldn't you want to start with the best possible odds?
    - curiousgal 10y ago
      The worst of those odds still beats living in Syria by a long mile believe me. For this particular guy, going for the "best possible odds" definitely doesn't justify the risk he took. In a nutshell, beggars can't be choosers.
      - vidarh 10y ago
        Of course beggars can be choosers. What that statement generally means is that beggars can't generally afford to turn down charity, hoping for others to give something better. But in this case this is not what we are talking about, but a situation where someone has to decide which country they will try to apply for asylum in, amongst multiple possible options. In that case, they most definitively can choose to some extent, even though the alternatives may have different perceived risk profiles. And as with everything else, of course some people will choose badly.
        PeterisP 10y ago
        But these aren't simply "multiple possible options" that differ only in the final country. One option, getting asylum as soon as you can, is your right, and the other option - crossing the border with forged documents to get asylum elsewhere - is a crime. Yes, you may prefer A to B - but if one of them is permitted and the other is not, then there is a big ethical difference, and simply choosing whatever benefits you most is not appropriate.
      - jamespo 10y ago
        It would seem they can in this case, maybe you don't want them to.
- gutnor 10y ago
  Is that true though ? It seems to be a recurrent theme, both in the press talking about benefit tourism in the UK and from apparently the believes of the immigrant like those desperately trying to cross the Channel tunnel at Calais. However, I'm a European living in the UK. About all areas I have looked seem to pay less or way less than France, Belgium or northern countries. For example, unemployment benefits are a fraction of the one in France. State pension is a joke. As soon as you start earning an average salary, child/housing benefit are pretty much inexistent, especially considering that stuff like nurseries cost 3 to 4 times more than equivalent private nurseries in France or Belgium. Public school do not offer facilities for children outside hours and start later and close earlier than on the continent, meaning you need to "go private" for that too while it is free in both France and Belgium. Your workplace rights are laughable: after 8 years my wife would get the same redundancy package than a new starter in the same company in France. The list goes on and on. What exactly is so amazing about the UK benefits that is worth the trouble compared to staying in France ? The real stuff that the UK has going for it is that you pay less tax, there are more work opportunities and in big cities, there is less employment discrimination. But that means that immigrant come to work not as benefit leeches as they are picture in the news.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - lotsofcows 10y ago
    This idea that paying less tax is a good thing boggles the mind. Do you think tax payer money is just burnt or something? Paying taxes provide services that maintain the sensible level of social movement and pay differential that has been demonstrated to advance entire societies. Why do so many people want to be the richest person in a shit-hole?
    - mindcrime 10y ago
      Do you think tax payer money is just burnt or something? No, some small percentage of it is used for "social good" and the rest is wasted or funneled to well connected / powerful political insiders and their cronies.
- vidarh 10y ago
  If it's social services you are after, the UK should be far down the list of places in the EEA to go to. Benefits payments here are laughable compared to large parts of Europe.
nraynaud 10y ago
It's essentially psychological, the UK is more popular amongst refugees, and they natively speak english, the 2 other big countries speak either French or German. I forgot to add: when the application is done, he's legally pinned to the country.
ljf 10y ago
From listening to him, he speaks excellent English - I might also assume he'd find it easier to settle here for that reason.
krona 10y ago
As the original documentary laid out this week, one of the biggest motivations for them to get to the UK is that once they have asylum, it's far easier for them to get their dependents (the entire family) to move to the UK legally, for free. In other countries in the EU (Germany and France were mentioned), it can take 2-3 years for this to happen; in the UK it can take weeks.
- pjc50 10y ago
  Why is this?
  - glomph 10y ago
    Probably because France and Germany just accept a lot more asylum seekers.
    - Fiahil 10y ago
      Indeed, Germany accepts more asylum seekers than any other in Europe. However, here in France, the problem is the bureaucracy involved. It's legendarily slow, inefficient, and painful. There is little political incentive to change it since our right wing (profoundly anti-immigration) has gained in popularity in recent years. More generally, anytime you'll have to deal with our administration, it will be incredibly painful (for foreigners and locals alike).
Perixoog 10y ago
He's an English teacher.

I must be missing something. Why didn't he apply for asylum in France then?

by jvdl 10y ago

I must be missing something. Why didn't he apply for asylum in France then?

Some motivations for travelling on from France to UK (as mentioned in various news media over recent years) Smugglers telling people that it is better to live in UK (the smuggler then gets to charge for the trip). Easier to get work without papers Community of people from same country of origin More generous welfare provision (UK still gives 'normal' accommodation, other EU countries are re-purposing non-residential buildings to house asylum seekers)

RockyMcNuts 10y ago
more flexible / stronger / better paid labor markets ... easier to get a job in UK than France for most immigrants

DominikR 10y ago

Social services don't pay enough.

overlordalex 10y ago
I haven't watched the video, but it would more likely be things like already having a basic grasp of English, being more familiar with the culture, etc, that would make integration easier.
curiousgal 10y ago
You'll probably get downvoted but you are correct. As an Arab it sickens me how these "refugees" are choosing what country to stay in despite the fact they say they escaped war and torture. It saddens me how they are giving us, potential future immigrants with degrees and a desire to be functional parts of society, more bad rep.
- widforss 10y ago
  As a refugee one is looking for a better life per definition. Surely the primary goal is to get away from war or threats of violence and death, but if you were starting over, wouldn't you want to start with the best possible odds?
  - curiousgal 10y ago
    The worst of those odds still beats living in Syria by a long mile believe me. For this particular guy, going for the "best possible odds" definitely doesn't justify the risk he took. In a nutshell, beggars can't be choosers.
    - vidarh 10y ago
      Of course beggars can be choosers. What that statement generally means is that beggars can't generally afford to turn down charity, hoping for others to give something better. But in this case this is not what we are talking about, but a situation where someone has to decide which country they will try to apply for asylum in, amongst multiple possible options. In that case, they most definitively can choose to some extent, even though the alternatives may have different perceived risk profiles. And as with everything else, of course some people will choose badly.
      - PeterisP 10y ago
        But these aren't simply "multiple possible options" that differ only in the final country. One option, getting asylum as soon as you can, is your right, and the other option - crossing the border with forged documents to get asylum elsewhere - is a crime. Yes, you may prefer A to B - but if one of them is permitted and the other is not, then there is a big ethical difference, and simply choosing whatever benefits you most is not appropriate.
    - jamespo 10y ago
      It would seem they can in this case, maybe you don't want them to.
gutnor 10y ago
Is that true though ? It seems to be a recurrent theme, both in the press talking about benefit tourism in the UK and from apparently the believes of the immigrant like those desperately trying to cross the Channel tunnel at Calais. However, I'm a European living in the UK. About all areas I have looked seem to pay less or way less than France, Belgium or northern countries. For example, unemployment benefits are a fraction of the one in France. State pension is a joke. As soon as you start earning an average salary, child/housing benefit are pretty much inexistent, especially considering that stuff like nurseries cost 3 to 4 times more than equivalent private nurseries in France or Belgium. Public school do not offer facilities for children outside hours and start later and close earlier than on the continent, meaning you need to "go private" for that too while it is free in both France and Belgium. Your workplace rights are laughable: after 8 years my wife would get the same redundancy package than a new starter in the same company in France. The list goes on and on. What exactly is so amazing about the UK benefits that is worth the trouble compared to staying in France ? The real stuff that the UK has going for it is that you pay less tax, there are more work opportunities and in big cities, there is less employment discrimination. But that means that immigrant come to work not as benefit leeches as they are picture in the news.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- lotsofcows 10y ago
  This idea that paying less tax is a good thing boggles the mind. Do you think tax payer money is just burnt or something? Paying taxes provide services that maintain the sensible level of social movement and pay differential that has been demonstrated to advance entire societies. Why do so many people want to be the richest person in a shit-hole?
  - mindcrime 10y ago
    Do you think tax payer money is just burnt or something? No, some small percentage of it is used for "social good" and the rest is wasted or funneled to well connected / powerful political insiders and their cronies.
vidarh 10y ago
If it's social services you are after, the UK should be far down the list of places in the EEA to go to. Benefits payments here are laughable compared to large parts of Europe.

nraynaud 10y ago

It's essentially psychological, the UK is more popular amongst refugees, and they natively speak english, the 2 other big countries speak either French or German. I forgot to add: when the application is done, he's legally pinned to the country.

ljf 10y ago

From listening to him, he speaks excellent English - I might also assume he'd find it easier to settle here for that reason.

krona 10y ago

As the original documentary laid out this week, one of the biggest motivations for them to get to the UK is that once they have asylum, it's far easier for them to get their dependents (the entire family) to move to the UK legally, for free. In other countries in the EU (Germany and France were mentioned), it can take 2-3 years for this to happen; in the UK it can take weeks.

pjc50 10y ago
Why is this?
- glomph 10y ago
  Probably because France and Germany just accept a lot more asylum seekers.
  - Fiahil 10y ago
    Indeed, Germany accepts more asylum seekers than any other in Europe. However, here in France, the problem is the bureaucracy involved. It's legendarily slow, inefficient, and painful. There is little political incentive to change it since our right wing (profoundly anti-immigration) has gained in popularity in recent years. More generally, anytime you'll have to deal with our administration, it will be incredibly painful (for foreigners and locals alike).

Perixoog 10y ago

He's an English teacher.