4 ms·

It's disturbing that in the age when we can manipulate atoms, we still cannot do anything about religious fanaticism, and about religion itself for that matter.

It's disturbing that in the age when we can manipulate atoms, we still cannot do anything about religious fanaticism, and about religion itself for that matter. One might think that mankind is just a bunch of stupid monkeys that happen to be very good with tools.

barking 10y ago
This has more to do with tribalism than religion imo. Religion is just another way of belonging to a tribe.
- tluyben2 10y ago
  I would like to see if religion would not exist (so no heaven, no elaborate scripture, no virgins, no caliphate) if they would've picked another 'tribe' with such vigor and disinterest in their own and other lives. (Following huuu here; we don't know if it was ISIS or another group yet)
  - Tomte 10y ago
    Hutu and Tutsi in Rwanda? Whites and Blacks a few decades ago in the USA? Aryans and Jews in Germany a few decades ago?
    - tluyben2 10y ago
      You can find plenty of references to Hitler and some of his henchmen thinking they're doing the will of god; http://jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/v16-n10/01 http://jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/v16-n10/01 Nor would I describe that as terrorism; the nazi's were the elected party.
      - Tomte 10y ago
        Claiming something and believing in something are two different things. Of course, "tribes" have always painted their fight against the other tribe as God-approved. That doesn't mean that God actually plays a role.
        tluyben2 10y ago
        But I was not claiming that; if you take away religion, at least you don't have god on your side. That is what i'm saying.
      - eis 10y ago
        The word terrorism comes from the Reign of Terror that the French government practiced at the end of the 18th century.
huuu 10y ago
How do you know this was an religious attack?
- tluyben2 10y ago
  Because ISIS (and other terrorists; I think most terrorists in history?) bases all attacks on their religion?
  - huuu 10y ago
    But was this an ISIS attack?
    - tluyben2 10y ago
      Agreed, let's shelve this until we know. However unless it's just some lunatic (escaped from an asylum, coming out of nowhere, working alone etc; so no, i'm not calling all terrorists lunatics although, in some ways at least, of course they are) I am willing to bet, ISIS or another group/person, it was religion based.
      - huuu 10y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_attack_on_the_Dutch_Royal_Family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_attack_on_the_Dutch_Royal...
        tluyben2 10y ago
        Which was why I added the possibility of a lunatic. But I was indeed thinking of that. As I just left the Netherlands when that happened and people were quite shook up.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
tluyben2 10y ago
It is not really something you are allowed to say here it seems as even on HN are people who believe which boggles the mind; I would love to hear from them what a possible solution would be. I know Islam & Christianity etc are about peace these days, but they were and often are not; their bibles are full of violence, hate, prejudice etc that 'the enlightened' learned to interpret differently. The fact that humanity decided to interpret things differently in 'some cases' is weird in itself; who told them too etc? Maybe the intent was and is violence and death and pain for everything that is 'different'? Isn't that what hell is? And many (growing in the middle east and africa) believe that to be their religion. Unfortunately besides trying to say their religion is peaceful, which they don't read in their holy books, no real solutions come from those who are religious so doing something about religion itself would be the only solution. I would love to hear some other, practical, insights which exclude teaching people more so they abandon religion. For me personal the latter would be the best, but on the other hand, everyone should be able to live the way they want (within boundaries) and if you want to live like that then that is fine as long as you tolerate others who believe something else. Again; I don't see that happen unless you radically rewrite the holy books to be completely modern (which also includes all other things which people still literally believe, and which are thus part of the problem, like the creation in 6 days and so forth).
- thomasjoulin 10y ago
  Religion only doesn't explain why the recent (post 9/11) surge in terrorists attacks. Also the world is far less religious than it was in the past, a very violent and vocal minority of people claiming to be religious are perpetrating these attacks while the majority of religious people condemn them. So it would be interesting to think about what changed, if not religion, that might cause this. I don't have a complete answer, not an expert in the subject but I'd venture to say that the actions of the West in the Middle East are one element of response.
  - tluyben2 10y ago
    > venture to say that the actions of the West in the Middle East are one element of response. Agree to that. And I don't say that no religion would stop it, but I think it would help as then you don't have firm base to stand on and get others to follow you for.
glomph 10y ago
Western Countries could change their foreign policy.
elgabogringo 10y ago
Are you implying this was because of Islam? That's racist.

barking 10y ago

This has more to do with tribalism than religion imo. Religion is just another way of belonging to a tribe.

tluyben2 10y ago
I would like to see if religion would not exist (so no heaven, no elaborate scripture, no virgins, no caliphate) if they would've picked another 'tribe' with such vigor and disinterest in their own and other lives. (Following huuu here; we don't know if it was ISIS or another group yet)
- Tomte 10y ago
  Hutu and Tutsi in Rwanda? Whites and Blacks a few decades ago in the USA? Aryans and Jews in Germany a few decades ago?
  - tluyben2 10y ago
    You can find plenty of references to Hitler and some of his henchmen thinking they're doing the will of god; http://jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/v16-n10/01 http://jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/v16-n10/01 Nor would I describe that as terrorism; the nazi's were the elected party.
    - Tomte 10y ago
      Claiming something and believing in something are two different things. Of course, "tribes" have always painted their fight against the other tribe as God-approved. That doesn't mean that God actually plays a role.
      - tluyben2 10y ago
        But I was not claiming that; if you take away religion, at least you don't have god on your side. That is what i'm saying.
    - eis 10y ago
      The word terrorism comes from the Reign of Terror that the French government practiced at the end of the 18th century.

huuu 10y ago

How do you know this was an religious attack?

tluyben2 10y ago
Because ISIS (and other terrorists; I think most terrorists in history?) bases all attacks on their religion?
- huuu 10y ago
  But was this an ISIS attack?
  - tluyben2 10y ago
    Agreed, let's shelve this until we know. However unless it's just some lunatic (escaped from an asylum, coming out of nowhere, working alone etc; so no, i'm not calling all terrorists lunatics although, in some ways at least, of course they are) I am willing to bet, ISIS or another group/person, it was religion based.
    - huuu 10y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_attack_on_the_Dutch_Royal_Family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_attack_on_the_Dutch_Royal...
      - tluyben2 10y ago
        Which was why I added the possibility of a lunatic. But I was indeed thinking of that. As I just left the Netherlands when that happened and people were quite shook up.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

tluyben2 10y ago

It is not really something you are allowed to say here it seems as even on HN are people who believe which boggles the mind; I would love to hear from them what a possible solution would be. I know Islam & Christianity etc are about peace these days, but they were and often are not; their bibles are full of violence, hate, prejudice etc that 'the enlightened' learned to interpret differently. The fact that humanity decided to interpret things differently in 'some cases' is weird in itself; who told them too etc? Maybe the intent was and is violence and death and pain for everything that is 'different'? Isn't that what hell is? And many (growing in the middle east and africa) believe that to be their religion. Unfortunately besides trying to say their religion is peaceful, which they don't read in their holy books, no real solutions come from those who are religious so doing something about religion itself would be the only solution. I would love to hear some other, practical, insights which exclude teaching people more so they abandon religion. For me personal the latter would be the best, but on the other hand, everyone should be able to live the way they want (within boundaries) and if you want to live like that then that is fine as long as you tolerate others who believe something else. Again; I don't see that happen unless you radically rewrite the holy books to be completely modern (which also includes all other things which people still literally believe, and which are thus part of the problem, like the creation in 6 days and so forth).

thomasjoulin 10y ago
Religion only doesn't explain why the recent (post 9/11) surge in terrorists attacks. Also the world is far less religious than it was in the past, a very violent and vocal minority of people claiming to be religious are perpetrating these attacks while the majority of religious people condemn them. So it would be interesting to think about what changed, if not religion, that might cause this. I don't have a complete answer, not an expert in the subject but I'd venture to say that the actions of the West in the Middle East are one element of response.
- tluyben2 10y ago
  > venture to say that the actions of the West in the Middle East are one element of response. Agree to that. And I don't say that no religion would stop it, but I think it would help as then you don't have firm base to stand on and get others to follow you for.

glomph 10y ago

Western Countries could change their foreign policy.

elgabogringo 10y ago

Are you implying this was because of Islam? That's racist.