6 ms·

They don't. Purism is mostly a marketing gimmick.

by beardog 10y ago

Taek 10y ago
It's definitely more than a marketing gimmick. Hardware switches are a big deal. Qubes out of box is really cool. Am emphasis on using as much open source hardware as possible is excellent. If Intel is the only vulnerability, we're doing miles better than your average device, where any of a dozen sources can compromise you. Librem is not perfect. It's just a step forward but if we don't start somewhere the ball will never get rolling. I'm happy to support them, and hope the next 5 years sees a decent cpu without security problems. We're moving the right direction for once.
- whamlastxmas 10y ago
  It is definitely a marketing gimmick on some level. They claimed an entirely open source laptop which is a complete and total lie. They are making good progress in one way, but still destroying trust in another.
  - sounds 10y ago
    Your statement "they are making good progress in one way, but still destroying trust in another" is problematic because it omits the most important detail: what is your proposed solution? A Novena from Bunnie? https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena A Lemote Yeelong? They're pretty difficult to even buy... http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Yeeloong-Notebook-computer-8089D-white-Linux/801318_284840643.html http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Yeeloong-Notebook-co... minifree.org products rely on hardware being available that does not have an Intel ME or equivalent. That hardware will only get harder to find as time goes on. When faced with a challenging problem like this, I find it saddening to see the Free Software community turning on each other and fighting instead of looking for multiple parallel solutions.
    - whamlastxmas 10y ago
      Novena is my favorite because it's the closest we have we entirely open source and is transparent about its shortcomings. I was actually going to link it but was commenting from my mobile at the time and was lazy.
    - rekado 10y ago
      There's also the EOMA68 "standard", which I hope will be successful enough to allow for the development of slightly more advanced computer cards: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop I prefer the Novena and the EOMA68 over the Purism project because they seem to do more than just promising the impossible. > what is your proposed solution? I don't think there is one yet. We need those who don't compromise the vision from the start to win and get enough funds to continue. The EOMA68 project seems most promising to me because it also aims to reduce waste, which is very important to me and something that appears to be ignored by most people. I'm using Libreboot on my Thinkpad X200s (I did not buy it from minifree). The X200s does have Intel ME/AMT and it can be removed by deleting the BIOS chip.
      - milcron 10y ago
        > I prefer the Novena and the EOMA68 over the Purism project because they seem to do more than just promising the impossible. Exactly! I want statements I can trust, not a marketing spiel. Take this webpage from the Replicant project [0]. They talk at length about the state of the industry, what is ideal, what is achievable, and what they have managed to accomplish. There is no marketing appeal to buzzwords or glossing over the fact that there is no ideal product right now. [0] http://www.replicant.us/freedom-privacy-security-issues.php http://www.replicant.us/freedom-privacy-security-issues.php
    - milcron 10y ago
      I would be more comfortable with their approach if they were more humble about achieving their goals. There does not exist a perfect solution at the moment, but they're not great at addressing that. Based on their marketing-speak, you'd think they'd solved the problem. Purism loudly trumpets their roadmaps[0] and plans[1] so as to suggest a trajectory towards totally free software, but until they achieve it their product is hardly worth the premium compared to installing Linux on an ultrabook of your choice. [0] https://puri.sm/posts/roadmap-to-a-completely-free-bios/ https://puri.sm/posts/roadmap-to-a-completely-free-bios/ Here they outline many things that need to be done. But note the language- "Purism’s goal is to publish a Free Software implementation ... as soon as an implementation is available." But who is responsible for implementing it? [1] https://puri.sm/road-to-fsf-ryf-endorsement-and-beyond/ https://puri.sm/road-to-fsf-ryf-endorsement-and-beyond/ Note that the FSF hasn't actually endorsed them yet, although this page is supposed to convince you that they're awful close. Why not wait until they're actually endorsed? So what does a Purism laptop actually give me? A kill-switch and the warm feelies. There is value in releasing a security-oriented laptop, pre-configured and tested to work with Linux. However their marketing spiel is disingenuous. Constrast with Replicant, who are very open about their shortcomings and that an ideal device is not currently attainable: http://www.replicant.us/freedom-privacy-security-issues.php http://www.replicant.us/freedom-privacy-security-issues.php
- milcron 10y ago
  If it's not a marketing gimmick, how do you explain this page? https://puri.sm/philosophy/ https://puri.sm/philosophy/ 1. Purism will only use free/libre and open source software in the kernel, OS, and all software. Free/Libre and Open Source Software is software that respects your freedom. Nonfree, or proprietary, software and installable firmware will be strictly prohibited within Purism. We promise that a Purism system and all its components will be free according to the strictest of guidelines set forth by the Free Software Foundation’s Free Software Definition. 2. Purism will design and manufacture hardware that respects users’ rights to privacy, security, and freedom. We promise that Purism systems will use hardware and software that respects users’ rights. Nonfree, or proprietary, chipsets that require installable firmware binaries into the kernel will be strictly prohibited within Purism. "Strictly prohibited" my arse. They've been using Intel chips with non-free firmware since day 1.

They don't. Purism is mostly a marketing gimmick.

by beardog 10y ago

They don't. Purism is mostly a marketing gimmick.

Taek 10y ago

It's definitely more than a marketing gimmick. Hardware switches are a big deal. Qubes out of box is really cool. Am emphasis on using as much open source hardware as possible is excellent. If Intel is the only vulnerability, we're doing miles better than your average device, where any of a dozen sources can compromise you. Librem is not perfect. It's just a step forward but if we don't start somewhere the ball will never get rolling. I'm happy to support them, and hope the next 5 years sees a decent cpu without security problems. We're moving the right direction for once.

whamlastxmas 10y ago
It is definitely a marketing gimmick on some level. They claimed an entirely open source laptop which is a complete and total lie. They are making good progress in one way, but still destroying trust in another.
- sounds 10y ago
  Your statement "they are making good progress in one way, but still destroying trust in another" is problematic because it omits the most important detail: what is your proposed solution? A Novena from Bunnie? https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena A Lemote Yeelong? They're pretty difficult to even buy... http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Yeeloong-Notebook-computer-8089D-white-Linux/801318_284840643.html http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Yeeloong-Notebook-co... minifree.org products rely on hardware being available that does not have an Intel ME or equivalent. That hardware will only get harder to find as time goes on. When faced with a challenging problem like this, I find it saddening to see the Free Software community turning on each other and fighting instead of looking for multiple parallel solutions.
  - whamlastxmas 10y ago
    Novena is my favorite because it's the closest we have we entirely open source and is transparent about its shortcomings. I was actually going to link it but was commenting from my mobile at the time and was lazy.
  - rekado 10y ago
    There's also the EOMA68 "standard", which I hope will be successful enough to allow for the development of slightly more advanced computer cards: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop I prefer the Novena and the EOMA68 over the Purism project because they seem to do more than just promising the impossible. > what is your proposed solution? I don't think there is one yet. We need those who don't compromise the vision from the start to win and get enough funds to continue. The EOMA68 project seems most promising to me because it also aims to reduce waste, which is very important to me and something that appears to be ignored by most people. I'm using Libreboot on my Thinkpad X200s (I did not buy it from minifree). The X200s does have Intel ME/AMT and it can be removed by deleting the BIOS chip.
    - milcron 10y ago
      > I prefer the Novena and the EOMA68 over the Purism project because they seem to do more than just promising the impossible. Exactly! I want statements I can trust, not a marketing spiel. Take this webpage from the Replicant project [0]. They talk at length about the state of the industry, what is ideal, what is achievable, and what they have managed to accomplish. There is no marketing appeal to buzzwords or glossing over the fact that there is no ideal product right now. [0] http://www.replicant.us/freedom-privacy-security-issues.php http://www.replicant.us/freedom-privacy-security-issues.php
  - milcron 10y ago
    I would be more comfortable with their approach if they were more humble about achieving their goals. There does not exist a perfect solution at the moment, but they're not great at addressing that. Based on their marketing-speak, you'd think they'd solved the problem. Purism loudly trumpets their roadmaps[0] and plans[1] so as to suggest a trajectory towards totally free software, but until they achieve it their product is hardly worth the premium compared to installing Linux on an ultrabook of your choice. [0] https://puri.sm/posts/roadmap-to-a-completely-free-bios/ https://puri.sm/posts/roadmap-to-a-completely-free-bios/ Here they outline many things that need to be done. But note the language- "Purism’s goal is to publish a Free Software implementation ... as soon as an implementation is available." But who is responsible for implementing it? [1] https://puri.sm/road-to-fsf-ryf-endorsement-and-beyond/ https://puri.sm/road-to-fsf-ryf-endorsement-and-beyond/ Note that the FSF hasn't actually endorsed them yet, although this page is supposed to convince you that they're awful close. Why not wait until they're actually endorsed? So what does a Purism laptop actually give me? A kill-switch and the warm feelies. There is value in releasing a security-oriented laptop, pre-configured and tested to work with Linux. However their marketing spiel is disingenuous. Constrast with Replicant, who are very open about their shortcomings and that an ideal device is not currently attainable: http://www.replicant.us/freedom-privacy-security-issues.php http://www.replicant.us/freedom-privacy-security-issues.php
milcron 10y ago
If it's not a marketing gimmick, how do you explain this page? https://puri.sm/philosophy/ https://puri.sm/philosophy/ 1. Purism will only use free/libre and open source software in the kernel, OS, and all software. Free/Libre and Open Source Software is software that respects your freedom. Nonfree, or proprietary, software and installable firmware will be strictly prohibited within Purism. We promise that a Purism system and all its components will be free according to the strictest of guidelines set forth by the Free Software Foundation’s Free Software Definition. 2. Purism will design and manufacture hardware that respects users’ rights to privacy, security, and freedom. We promise that Purism systems will use hardware and software that respects users’ rights. Nonfree, or proprietary, chipsets that require installable firmware binaries into the kernel will be strictly prohibited within Purism. "Strictly prohibited" my arse. They've been using Intel chips with non-free firmware since day 1.