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> I must say their economic track record is exemplary compared to the socialists. Venezuelan food riots, anyone? Socialism != Democratic Socialism. Venezuela i

> I must say their economic track record is exemplary compared to the socialists. Venezuelan food riots, anyone? Socialism != Democratic Socialism. Venezuela is not the model Bernie Sanders and his supporters wants to emulate. The Nordic countries, and to some extent Germany, are good examples of Democratic Socialism. Stronger social safety nets, free / nearly free health care and higher education, high minimum wage. Paid for by taxing corporations and the wealthy. We also see that increased incomes from the wealthy and corporations are not flowing back into the economy. The wealthy are saving their money, not spending it. Corporations are doing stock buybacks and paying out dividends, not expanding their workforce or increasing wages. This is the failure of neoliberalism. It worked great in the past, but now it isn't. It's time for a change.

aserafini 10y ago
Germany has excruciatingly expensive health care compared to the UK and the NHS. Definitely not free or anywhere nearly free.
- socialist_coder 10y ago
  That is why I said, "and to some extent, Germany". Also, German health care might be expensive but it's always affordable since it scales with your income. It's also still cheaper than the US. Source: I live in Germany and pay the maximum for my health care, which is around $900 US a month. This covers my entire family, and there are practically 0 co-pays, deductibles, or arguing with the insurance company. Before that, while I was boot strapping my startup and making 0 money, my health insurance was super super cheap.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
wyager 10y ago
"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy." -PM Rasmussen, in response to American socialists incorrectly claiming that they were trying to emulate the Nordic model. I'd also like to note that (probably as a result of their relatively high tax rate) the Nordic countries are not economic powerhouses. Places like Hong Kong or Switzerland, with relatively free markets and low taxes, are.
- socialist_coder 10y ago
  My apologies, even I was confused at the terminology. Social Democracy vs Democratic Socialism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy <-- The Nordic model. This what I would argue for, and when people say they want to emulate the Nordic model, this is what they mean. It's 100% a market economy, no one is advocating for a socialist planned economy. Regarding economic powerhouses, do we really need to make that the goal? Quality of life and sustainability should be the primary goal, not corporate growth and profits.
dilemma 10y ago
Sanders' policies would throw any of the Nordic economies into depression and would bankrupt the state if put into practice there. What people fail to understand is that the Swedish model of social democratic capitalism isn't antagonistic to large corporations; it's a model where state and corporations form a symbiotic relationship. This at the expense of SMBs and the civil society.
- socialist_coder 10y ago
  > What people fail to understand is that the Swedish model of social democratic capitalism isn't antagonistic to large corporations; it's a model where state and corporations form a symbiotic relationship. This at the expense of SMBs and the civil society. I don't think anyone who seriously follows US politics or economics fails to understand that. Bernie Sanders is not pushing to get rid of the free market. I would love to know more about what you mean when you say it comes "at the expense of SMBs and the civil society"? From my perspective, here in Germany, having a small business is a bit easier because you do not have to cover health insurance for yourself (your health insurance scales with your income so it will always be affordable) or any of your employees. Of course, the stronger rights of the worker can bite you since it is very difficult to actually fire someone. I know a lot of people who are self employed contractors (filling some small niche), not even making that much money, but still having excellent health care and a high quality of life. That type of thing is much harder in the US since there is no safety net to fall back on and you will be crushed by health care costs.
socialist_coder 10y ago
Edit: I meant Social Democracy, not Democratic Socialism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
Turing_Machine 10y ago
"Venezuela is not the model Bernie Sanders and his supporters wants to emulate. " "No True Scotsman".

aserafini 10y ago

Germany has excruciatingly expensive health care compared to the UK and the NHS. Definitely not free or anywhere nearly free.

socialist_coder 10y ago
That is why I said, "and to some extent, Germany". Also, German health care might be expensive but it's always affordable since it scales with your income. It's also still cheaper than the US. Source: I live in Germany and pay the maximum for my health care, which is around $900 US a month. This covers my entire family, and there are practically 0 co-pays, deductibles, or arguing with the insurance company. Before that, while I was boot strapping my startup and making 0 money, my health insurance was super super cheap.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

wyager 10y ago

"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy." -PM Rasmussen, in response to American socialists incorrectly claiming that they were trying to emulate the Nordic model. I'd also like to note that (probably as a result of their relatively high tax rate) the Nordic countries are not economic powerhouses. Places like Hong Kong or Switzerland, with relatively free markets and low taxes, are.

socialist_coder 10y ago
My apologies, even I was confused at the terminology. Social Democracy vs Democratic Socialism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy <-- The Nordic model. This what I would argue for, and when people say they want to emulate the Nordic model, this is what they mean. It's 100% a market economy, no one is advocating for a socialist planned economy. Regarding economic powerhouses, do we really need to make that the goal? Quality of life and sustainability should be the primary goal, not corporate growth and profits.

dilemma 10y ago

Sanders' policies would throw any of the Nordic economies into depression and would bankrupt the state if put into practice there. What people fail to understand is that the Swedish model of social democratic capitalism isn't antagonistic to large corporations; it's a model where state and corporations form a symbiotic relationship. This at the expense of SMBs and the civil society.

socialist_coder 10y ago
> What people fail to understand is that the Swedish model of social democratic capitalism isn't antagonistic to large corporations; it's a model where state and corporations form a symbiotic relationship. This at the expense of SMBs and the civil society. I don't think anyone who seriously follows US politics or economics fails to understand that. Bernie Sanders is not pushing to get rid of the free market. I would love to know more about what you mean when you say it comes "at the expense of SMBs and the civil society"? From my perspective, here in Germany, having a small business is a bit easier because you do not have to cover health insurance for yourself (your health insurance scales with your income so it will always be affordable) or any of your employees. Of course, the stronger rights of the worker can bite you since it is very difficult to actually fire someone. I know a lot of people who are self employed contractors (filling some small niche), not even making that much money, but still having excellent health care and a high quality of life. That type of thing is much harder in the US since there is no safety net to fall back on and you will be crushed by health care costs.

socialist_coder 10y ago

Edit: I meant Social Democracy, not Democratic Socialism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

Turing_Machine 10y ago

"Venezuela is not the model Bernie Sanders and his supporters wants to emulate. " "No True Scotsman".