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Not that I disagree with you, but what would you say to "Joe Middle America" and all like Joe who are seeing their middle class lifestyle evaporate alongside th

Not that I disagree with you, but what would you say to "Joe Middle America" and all like Joe who are seeing their middle class lifestyle evaporate alongside this reduction in poverty? Welcome to being upper-lower class?

_rpd 10y ago
To see it as an investment, and also an act of self-interest. Getting basic health care to billions lowers the risk of new plagues. Improving their quality of life lowers discontent and the risk of more and larger wars. Establishing a basic standard of education does more than all the rest, adding billions of voices to the global conversation and inventions that benefit everyone. You can't sell tertiary services to people subsisting on $1/day. The situation had to be addressed, the pain is real, but we will all be better off.
- rfrank 10y ago
  The "investment" would be in plague prevention, foreign education, and potential war prevention? So that tertiary services can be sold by members of the upper class to citizens of the developing world? This seems like the sort of argument that strengthens Joe Middle America's nationalist sentiment, not alleviates it.
  - _rpd 10y ago
    Plagues and wars don't respect national boundaries. Joe Middle America knows that it's his sons and daughters that would be on the front lines in a large war. Foreign education alleviates the environment of ignorance that allows fundamentalism and extremism to thrive, and also lowers population growth rates that threaten a wide variety of problems. Joe Middle America is almost certainly employed by an organization that provides tertiary services, or else high tech manufacturing that, again, requires wealthy, educated buyers. I'm not saying it's an easy sell. The mood in the developed world is definitely protectionist.
    - rfrank 10y ago
      None of those things immediately impact the number of dollars in his bank account, or his ability to move upward in the economy moving forward, so Joe doesn't care. "Joe, I know all of your anecdotal experience says quality of life has been declining for you and everyone you know since the 70's, but just go with it a little bit longer and it'll be ok. Check out this chart of global income levels. And this one of happiness in America. See, life is better. Just not for you."
- douche 10y ago
  Unfortunately Joe and Jane Middle-America don't care about the far-off billions they have never met. They care about their hometown, that is descending into a post-industrial ghost-town because the local manufacturing was undercut by the almost-free labor of those far-off billions, or their friends and family that are losing their financial independence, or spiraling into depression, suicide, or opioid abuse. It's not looking like a good deal to Joe and Jane.
mtanski 10y ago
It seams to me as period of 50s to 90s contributed as a blip. Yeah, the American middle class doing artificially well. Europe was still rebuilding from WW2. The Soviet Union wasn't really a match (despite the pretenses). Rest of the wold with filled with poor counties with terrible with repressive regimes. At the time the US had a liberal business climate compared to other parts of the world. As a result a lot of industry was created and exported via culture. What's happened since is that rest of the world caught up. Europe is no longer rebuilding. Soviet Union fell apart freeing a lot of nation states to purse western ideals. In Asian countries the regimes got softer and also liveried their economies. So there's a lot more competition. Globalization became possible and practical. In the US life expectancy went up (medication and not smoking) so that made generous defined benefit programs a lot less practical. Women and African Americans can now do a lot of the jobs that were reserved for white middle class males. All of these things contributed to white middle class American males losing out compare to what they had before. Baby boomers and before just happened to be in the right place / right time.

_rpd 10y ago

To see it as an investment, and also an act of self-interest. Getting basic health care to billions lowers the risk of new plagues. Improving their quality of life lowers discontent and the risk of more and larger wars. Establishing a basic standard of education does more than all the rest, adding billions of voices to the global conversation and inventions that benefit everyone. You can't sell tertiary services to people subsisting on $1/day. The situation had to be addressed, the pain is real, but we will all be better off.

rfrank 10y ago
The "investment" would be in plague prevention, foreign education, and potential war prevention? So that tertiary services can be sold by members of the upper class to citizens of the developing world? This seems like the sort of argument that strengthens Joe Middle America's nationalist sentiment, not alleviates it.
- _rpd 10y ago
  Plagues and wars don't respect national boundaries. Joe Middle America knows that it's his sons and daughters that would be on the front lines in a large war. Foreign education alleviates the environment of ignorance that allows fundamentalism and extremism to thrive, and also lowers population growth rates that threaten a wide variety of problems. Joe Middle America is almost certainly employed by an organization that provides tertiary services, or else high tech manufacturing that, again, requires wealthy, educated buyers. I'm not saying it's an easy sell. The mood in the developed world is definitely protectionist.
  - rfrank 10y ago
    None of those things immediately impact the number of dollars in his bank account, or his ability to move upward in the economy moving forward, so Joe doesn't care. "Joe, I know all of your anecdotal experience says quality of life has been declining for you and everyone you know since the 70's, but just go with it a little bit longer and it'll be ok. Check out this chart of global income levels. And this one of happiness in America. See, life is better. Just not for you."
douche 10y ago
Unfortunately Joe and Jane Middle-America don't care about the far-off billions they have never met. They care about their hometown, that is descending into a post-industrial ghost-town because the local manufacturing was undercut by the almost-free labor of those far-off billions, or their friends and family that are losing their financial independence, or spiraling into depression, suicide, or opioid abuse. It's not looking like a good deal to Joe and Jane.

mtanski 10y ago

It seams to me as period of 50s to 90s contributed as a blip. Yeah, the American middle class doing artificially well. Europe was still rebuilding from WW2. The Soviet Union wasn't really a match (despite the pretenses). Rest of the wold with filled with poor counties with terrible with repressive regimes. At the time the US had a liberal business climate compared to other parts of the world. As a result a lot of industry was created and exported via culture. What's happened since is that rest of the world caught up. Europe is no longer rebuilding. Soviet Union fell apart freeing a lot of nation states to purse western ideals. In Asian countries the regimes got softer and also liveried their economies. So there's a lot more competition. Globalization became possible and practical. In the US life expectancy went up (medication and not smoking) so that made generous defined benefit programs a lot less practical. Women and African Americans can now do a lot of the jobs that were reserved for white middle class males. All of these things contributed to white middle class American males losing out compare to what they had before. Baby boomers and before just happened to be in the right place / right time.